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Old 04-06-2007, 10:12 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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OK, now I think we are making progress. Soon, I think we may have
'Custom' refined enough that the final definition can be put up for a
vote on a Poll.

Andy,

The essential part of the term 'custom' in the English language as
applied to products is that the item has been ordered by a 'customer'.
A 'customer' is defined in my dictionary as a patron, a buyer, or a
shopper. You cannot be your own customer. Please note the inclusion
of the word 'patron'. While the most common intent of a custom order
would be to get paid for the custom work, payment is not absolutely
required. If someone asks you to make a knife a certain way and you
make that knife it is a custom knife. You can give it away or not
but it is a custom knife. I recognize that this part of the definition
has always been part of the way some knife makers use the term
'custom' and that there have also been other makers who simply apply
it to any knife they make. I submit that if we allow that to
continue then the term 'custom' actually has NO meaning for knife
makers since it is virtually the same as 'I made this knife' and we
have many other terms and ways of saying that which we haven't
tackled yet.

So, what does (or should) it mean when we say we are Custom Knife
Makers? It means only that we will make you a knife however you
want it made if you ask us. That's all. It doesn't say anything
about the knives we may make of our own volition, it doesn't say
anything about how we make the knives.

This is only one knife making term that describes one small aspect
of knife making. It is not an attempt at describing everything
their is to know about how a knife was made in one word.

Nathan,

Your definition:

CUSTOM KNIFE: A knife produced to the specifications of an individual
or to personal order.

is very much in line with my argument except that I preclude the
maker from being the individual providing the specifications. We
have other terms that can be used for that - perhaps HandMade, Forged,
or whatever term yet to be discussed. You said it yourself,
"made or performed according to personal order." You cannot 'order'
a knife from yourself. 'Order' is a word which has a meaning too
and we cannot arbitrarily choose to ignore it.

True, that means that some knives made by Scagel, Moran, etc were not
custom knives and that is simply a fact. They weren't. But, some
were. It isn't a reflection on their craftsmanship, not at all. Those
knives were still HandMade, Forged, Designed By, whatever but some
weren't made to a customer's order.

Yes, I know the term 'custom' hasn't always been used precisely like
that, see my comments to Andy above. There is confusion in the
general knife making community as to what is or is not a custom knife.
If we are to relieve that confusion we must supply defintions that
have actual meaning. We can choose to define Custom as simply any
knife made by any knife maker for any reason - the current definition-
or we can try to give it real meaning. Remember, we still have other
terms as yet untouched that can be used to describe other aspects of
how and/or why a knife was made. The whole story doesn't have to be
and probably cannot be in a single word.

If we allow 'custom' to mean any knife made by any knife maker for any
reason then what is the difference bewteen:

"I make custom knives".

and

"I make knives".

?????????


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