View Full Version : files


dcforge
06-14-2001, 10:46 PM
Can any one tell me how to anneal files? I have some old vixen files i would like to do some stock removal with.
One more question. What is the differance between annealing and normalizing?

foxcreek
06-15-2001, 07:09 AM
If I may be so bold as to jump in here I will try to help. You may assume files are 1095 or at least something very like unto 1095. To anneal you need to merely to heat the files to critical temperature and no higher, no soaking needed on this relatively thin stock. If you are using a coal forge use a nice deep mellow fire with moderate blast. You want to keep scaling to a minimum, but not take too long getting it hot either. Try to get an even heat the full length of the file too. Remove the heated files from the fire and place them in your insulating medium to cool as slowly as possible, over night preferably. This may be hot ashes or sand or lime or any number of things, but the most available inert and effective material widely used today seems to be Vermiculite. (Vermiculite is an expanded mica product with a lot of uses, widely available, cheaply too, at Nursery and garden supply stores) A depth of 8 -10 inches around the hot steel is plenty. Traditionally you would leave the files banked in the hot ashes of the forge itself (with the blower off of course) to anneal and this works too. If there is a trick to this, it is too get the steel into the insulating medium quickly before the heat starts to drop at all. Straight carbon steels have very little "hang time" unlike some more highly alloyed steels. Practice cold it you have too. Get it out of the forge and into the bin of vermiculite in one second, and dont peek until the next day and all will be well.

Ed Caffrey
06-15-2001, 07:29 AM
Foxcreek's method is right on the money! I would caution you to KNOW exactly what the files are made of though. There is only one brand of files that I am certain are 1095, and that's Nicholson. Nearly all the other brands are either case hardened, or the companies tend to change the steels they use, based on currently market prices for the raw material.
Either of these can cause headaches when working with old files. So, stick with Nicholson files, and you'll be OK. One more thing....... Nicholson also makes a brand of file labeled as "Black Diamond", which is a very good file to create blades. I had a chunk of is spectrographed, and the element content is identical to 1095, with the exception of carbon content, that turns out to be 1.27%! Really good stuff.
On the "Vixen" files, make sure you quench test one before you go to all the trouble of creating a blade. I've used this brand in the past, and have found that some are case hardened, and some are not!

foxcreek
06-15-2001, 10:22 AM
Oh, yes, Thanks, I forgot about those nasty case hardened files! I guess I am the trusting sort. So far I havent come across any like that I know of. Dumb luck as I just realized reading your comments that I have made several blades of files steel with out testing the stuff first! :eek: ....Hmmmm.. Just as a Gedankenexperiment, a case hardened file must have quite a bit of carbon in the hard skin to be hard enough to be a file. On a small case hardened file this

foxcreek
06-15-2001, 10:31 AM
(oops, to complete the thought..)...on small files this "skin" of hardened steel would be thicker in proportion to the central portion of un-hardenable steel than on a large file right? so could you weld up several six inch casehardened files and get a usuable billet? ....assuming (the A word again) that the casehardening is a carbon case and not a cyanide or nitride case.

Ed Caffrey
06-15-2001, 10:43 PM
Not really sure how stacking a welding would be, sounds good in theory though. Personally, if it's case hardened, I don't even go any further, there's just too much room for something not to go right, and then you've got all that wasted time and effort into a blade that's not good. Just my thoughts........

dcforge
06-16-2001, 07:34 PM
Thank you so much for your replies. I read some where that when forging files it was suggested that one grind the file smooth as the groves would cause fractures in the finised blade that might not be visable to the naked eye. Any thoughts? oh by the way could you guys please tell me the diferance between annealing and nomalizing.

Ed Caffrey
06-16-2001, 09:56 PM
Grinding the teeth down is a good idea, unless you want the visual effect of the file in the finished blade, which is something that the buckskinners like.
The difference between normalizing and annealing.........
Normalizing is done immediately following forging. Heat the blade to just non-magnetic, and allow to cool completely in still air. This is a stress relieving step. During forging a great deal of stress is built up within the steel, and this step ensures no stress fractures occur. It's sort of like you or I stretching after a long trip in a car......Kinda works out the tightness. I personally normalize once after forging, and again after grinding, right before the first hardening cycle. By doing this, I have eliminated about 90% of blade warpage that occurs during hardening.
Annealing has a couple of funtions.......
1. It softens the steel, which makes filing, grinding, and sanding much eaisier.
2. Most importantly is refines grain structure, which sets the steel up for hardening and tempering.
Both of these steps are integral parts of the heat treat, and care should be taken that each is done correctly.