Whats everyone's opinion on this steel- edge retention, toughness, work-able? Proper heat treat, does it respond well to triple HT and temper? Any opinions are welcomed. Thank-you in advance- Larry.
PS This will be a stock removal application not forged- nothing against forged I just don't know how.

Hi Larry!

1095 will make a very servicable blade. The problem that myself, as well as others have with 1095 is the hardenability. The lower amount of Maganese in this steel sometimes makes it difficult to achieve good hardening. Concerning multiple hardening and tempering...........I've seen very little effect by multiple hardening this steel. Triple tempering is always a good idea, although I've not seen any added benifits with triple tempering 1095.

I used to work with it more but still work with it often enough that I always have some in my shop. Ed has already pointed out the lower Mn and its effect on hardenability. This, coupled with the extra carbon, makes 1095 a steel that will give interesting effects in Hamon (temper lines) if you like to work with oil. I used to do a lot more of this than what I do now but since I always preffered oil over water for a quench all of the pro-eutectiod cementite in 1095 will give interesting effects in the temper lines, if you quench in oil in a fast oil. The same carbon levels could be disasterous in water. 1050 and 1060 give nice effects from the left over ferrite and can be dunked it water with less worry.

I think all of that left over cementite can also add abrasion resistance, which equals edge holding, if you play with the hea treat a bit. I seem to have gotten slightly better long term cutting results from 1095 than with 1084. The steel is also simple enough for there to be less to go wrong when working it.

I does also grinds pretty easy ;)

So, if you wouldn't mind, can you walk me through the heat treat with this steel to achive maximum results. I've got a burning hot deal on some 1095 (pun intended) and would like to use it.
In my testing I am able to consistantly get it harder than a file and the thickness is only about 1/8 of an in. Larry

Slowly and evenly heat to 1500F. and immediately quench in 150F. oil. The stuff will form a natural temper line, with no clay or edge quenching, that will look like little thunder head clouds along the martensite/pearlite interface. You can use this line to adjust your quench speed. The faster the quench medium, the closer to the spine you can get with that line. But with oil I don't know if you will ever loose the line completely. I could get it around 3/16 -1/4" from a 3/16"-1/4"thick spine using Parks #50, and that is probably the fastest oil going. But then you are talking about using 1/8" thickness so I would expect fairly thorough hardening.

Avoid soaking for any significant period of time at austenitizing temp. if you are doing it in a forge or open air oven. All of that carbon in such a simple steel will give enlarged grains quicker than you can blink. 1095 is my steel of choice when demonstrating grain growth from over heating, for this reason pay very close attention to your tip and other smaller cross sections while heating.

Tempering in an oven at 400F. for 2 hours always gave me a 58HRC (well not ALWAYS, there may have been a couple of 57 spots in there);)

The thing to remember is with this steel, the quench timing is critical. Have your quench tank right next to your fire. With 1084 you have around .75 seconds to get below 900F. on the curves, with 1095 you have about 1/2 a second!

Annealing is a breeze, heat to critical and stuff in wood ash, vermiculite or even the open air and you will form lamellar pearlite that is soft enough to easily work. If you have the equipmment, all of that carbon also balls up into little spheres quite well (spheroidizing).

It will also respond well to cycling due to the extra cementite but the temperature and time is very tricky to control. The grain coarsening temperature will be harder to avoid, and you could be over it before you know it. Start hot and work your normalizations cooler as you go.

Thanks Kevin,

Currently I'm using a propane torch, magnet and a bucket of hydralic(sp) oil warmed to 120 to 150 degrees to HT. I start with the oil at room temp. then HT three times paying particular attention to the final heat up and quench. I started doing this after reading that some of the forgers think that the multiple heats the blade has to go through in forging does more good then the actual hammering. So by the time I get done with the blade between normalizing and HT the blade is brouhgt up to non-magnetic a total of 6 times.
I'm new enough at this that I can't say it works better than any other way, but, it seems to feel right. Larry

So ,let me ask a question Grain growth, Is that the little circles and odd shapes that showed up on my 1095 after i cleaned off the scale after hardening?I was under the impression that I over heated it.:confused: It looks really beautiful But I guess that blade is ruined for any real purpose. If I do not know what I am talking about please tell me what i did wrong to get that weird pattern on my steel as to not do it again 1/8 in. 1095 brought up to non magnetic, qwenched in ATF. thanks guys

Those spots and mottling on your blades surface would be decarburization. This is not necesarrily indicative of grain growth. Grain growth will come mostly from too high of a temperature for austenitizing. Decarb comes from too long at temp in the wrong atmosphere. Cut back on your blast in the forge and get the heat for quenching done ASAP.

I don't know how 1095 performs as a stock-removal blade, however, I can tell you that it is one heck of a good blade forged. J. Neilson made me a hunter with that steel that rocks in all respects! It won't be my last either!

So can I leave it on as a finish? It looks so cool!!! Or do i have to grind it off? I did stock removal on that blade and so far for performance there is no complaints. cant wait to forge some, when I get my new forge( charlie are you out there ? hint,hint)

I was talking to some other smiths at the Missoula show about 1095 and all agreed that the quenching speed is all important to getting the stuff to workable hardness. I've only made one blade from 1095 and it was a 30 or so layer forge weld of 50 thou. thick shim stock. I used clay and oil (peanut) and got nice hamon development and the edge was around 62 as-quenched.

This stuff can be a bitch to forgeweld with...I don't know why.
But it was a relief to hear everyone that has experience with it say the same. ( Hey Kevin!!.........Help!):)

I used my furnace for heat control and went to 1550. I usually practice the movement of the blade from the furnace or forge to the quench a few times to make the process flow and to prevent screwups...like snagging a swordblade on something before it gets to the quench tube. So barring alot of extraneous movement on my part, the extra 50 degrees may have helped keep the temp close to critical on the trip to the bucket.

So now I have some real 1095 barstock in my shop and I'm looking forward to working with it some more. BTW one of the coolest blades I ever saw was a Don Fogg camp knife in 1095 done with clay.........

Hey Ed, Missed you in Missoula........WTF Over?? :D

Rob

Originally posted by Shawn Perrault
So can I leave it on as a finish? It looks so cool!!! Or do i have to grind it off?...


It is a common practice among makers of primative style knives to remove and add carbon all over the suface in order to enhance this affect and then leave it for a decorative finish. Just make sure that the edge is ground enough to get to all uniform carbon content underneath.

Originally posted by RPatton
I was talking to some other smiths at the Missoula show about 1095 and all agreed that the quenching speed is all important to getting the stuff to workable hardness. I've only made one blade from 1095 and it was a 30 or so layer forge weld of 50 thou. thick shim stock. I used clay and oil (peanut) and got nice hamon development and the edge was around 62 as-quenched...

1084 with the Mn and eutectoid composition needs to be cooled from critical to below 900F. in about .75 seconds to achieve total hardness, as if that wasn't fast enough 1095 needs to be cooled in the same temperature range in .5 seconds. If you have thicker spine it is next to impossible to avoid a naturally occuring hamon in oil. I used to get the most beautiful thunder head cloud like hamons about 1/4 to 3/8 from the spine with no clay at all. So the idea is to have a fast quench medium and have it right next to your fire;) .

The 62 as-quenched at the edge would concern me however, I would check into a faster oil as 65HRC is not uncommon with fully hardened 1095, sounds like there might be some very fine pearlite below the hamon line as well.


This stuff can be a bitch to forgeweld with...I don't know why.
But it was a relief to hear everyone that has experience with it say the same. ( Hey Kevin!!.........Help!):)


Sorry but I don't have too much to add except the startig thicknesses. I used to find that 1095 always gave me blisters when forge welding and this only seemed to happen with 1095, but then I realized that 1095 is the only steel that I stacked up in thinner cross sections. Thinner cross sections "cup" when heated and trap pockets in the welds. This has all went away since I went to 1/2" layers or better for my 1095 as well. BUt I have heard others complain that they have had problems, I cannot imagine what would be in such a simple chemistry that could be an issue except for the extra carbon, and this should be a matter fo adjusting temperature and heats.

Thanks Kevin,

The 62 is probably a bit conservative. Just because my 65RC file skates across an edge I don't assume its actually 65....
On this particular blade, The 60 file skated and the 65 was barely grabbing. Not exactly a science.......................:)

The thickness of my 1095 stock and 'cupping' would explain my welding woes.


Rob