Here is the strange steel I made in December, using my star chamber thermite furnace.. It's been to a few labs and now has a provisional patent I call it Rhenaissance steel. I use rhenium, thus the spelling.

It has no carbon, no carbides, (rhenium does not form carbides). It is completely stable, room temp austenite and non magnetic. It is 98% iron and still steel. It is non sparking and corrosion resistant, The rhenium and niobium add heat resistance. It has some very interesting structures. This run, I used just under 1% rhenium and under 1% niobium. .28% nickel. The patent I think says up to 5.00% each, with the addition of boron and/or nitrogen for hardening.

Here are some pics of the proto run. The worm like structures are an intermetallic filament. I'm awaiting some sem data to find out what they are. The white cubes are very hard and resemble the cube structures found in super alloys. It specs out in the low to mid 40's Rc. That's without boron or nitrogen, which I will use for hardening.
For me, it's a whole new paradigm...

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1900/rheniassancesteeluo4.jpg

Here are a few phase diagrams that was run through thermal calc. I have a lot more.
The filaments will form uni-directional when forged, thus adding to unidirectional strength and toughness.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5076/feninb3qi8.png

More diagrams.
Scott MacKenzie, helped quite a bit, and is on the patent with me. Couldn't do it with out him.
Going to try for the Holy Grail of high strength, hardness and toughness. Right now, my first run specs out to be around 120-150,000 ksi. Lot of promise, including a possible ferro superconductor.

Remember though, I'm not a metallurgist , so easy on the terms.
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/3301/feninbternary1id1.png

That last one looks like the weather channel's projected hurricane tracks !:rolleyes:

That last one looks like the weather channel's projected hurricane tracks !:rolleyes:
I told Dr. Scott it looks like a map of Chicago.:D

Congrats Jerry! You have left your mark in history with the patent. The Rhen steel should be some intersting stuff to play with for sure.

Now you just need a big corporation to swip it from you so can make a movie and rake in some bucks off of it. Showing thermite runs and boiling steel has got to be more interesting then intermittent winshield wipers.:101

Congrats Jerry! You have left your mark in history with the patent. The Rhen steel should be some intersting stuff to play with for sure.

Now you just need a big corporation to swip it from you so can make a movie and rake in some bucks off of it. Showing thermite runs and boiling steel has got to be more interesting then intermittent winshield wipers.:101
Ha ha, yep.
There is a lot of interest. When metallurgists ask me how I made it, there is a long pause after I tell them how.:D
I'm just hoping someone will buy the patent, or hire me in their R&D dept.
Thermite is quite photogenic. Maybe someone will invite me to do a demo at a show or hammerin.:flame:
I'm sure that would pucker the cheeks of some in the insurance biz.:lol

EDIT: To add; rhenium has the 3rd highest melting point of all elements. Only tungsten and carbon are higher. BTW, i also made a tungsten alloy with the star chamber.
I need a good vac furnace though, for some real tight control for further testing.

Some bozo up north of you is working a system that uses inert gas vs a vacuum for alloying and smelting.

Hurry up with that thing, will ya!:p
Here is all the rhenium I have left, (minus the small piece by my ring finger). It's a deceptively a small amount, but it's heavier, (denser), than gold. Your arc furnace should get it into solution though. A teeny bit of carbon is ok, but not too much. Gives me an excuse to go up there and taste some of your home brew.:D You should host an exothermic, hop and barleymalt, 5000 degree, hammer-in.
I'll bring my chemicals and fire retardant underwear.:lol
Let us know when the neighbors are out of town.



http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1563/rareandwonderfulxa7.jpg

Jerry,

Uh...you could only be showing off if you were gloating to a peer. I am obviously NOT your peer. I don't have a clue what you've created. It's cool as heck, I know that.

It almost looks like fossilized metals. Like metals that have been exposed to the metallurgical equivalent of forces that form conglomerate rock. If you know what I mean.

It's amazing. And the phase charts scare me a little. Or maybe just make me dizzy. Either way it doesn't seem to be like anything I've ever seen...ever!

Those filaments look like they solidified/cooled at a much higher temp than the surrounding material. Or were chasing lines of force maybe.

What the heck is that much more attractive than iron? Wow.

The square crystals almost look like an anomalous byproduct of the smelting process. I'll be interested to hear if you determine how they work for the alloy.

I'll tell you what you've done......you've created Frankenstein's monster. I believe I've begun to bleed from the ears just lookin' at it! ;~)

That stuff is COOL!!!

Congratulations!

chiger

it doesn't seem to be like anything I've ever seen...ever!

I've been getting that a lot. :D Especially from metallurgists.
Those filaments look like they solidified/cooled at a much higher temp than the surrounding material. Or were chasing lines of force maybe.

That's a very interesting point. The filaments seem to be random in orientation, but close to the same length.
The square crystals almost look like an anomalous byproduct of the smelting process. I'll be interested to hear if you determine how they work for the alloy.
I had the exact same thought. I use MgO for the liner in my t-mite crucible. MgO is a cube crystal. I assumed some got in as an inclusion, but no. Dr Scott says that the white squares are likely Ni3Nb or Ni3Re - they have a DO22 or DO23 structure that looks very similar to the nickel aluminides in superalloys. They are VERY hard, and resisted all the acids.


http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/963/structurepm1.jpg


As far as the gloating goes, I talk that way all the time to Brent. He is a good friend and co-conspirator. We both like to try new things. Sometimes, new things arent accepted with open arms,( present company accepted), so there is a tinge of sarcasm between friends. ;) You should read the thread I made when I first made it. http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45197
It wasn't so much a "mistake", as I made exactly what I wanted, but the result was totally unexpected, and wasn't smart enough to realize that. :o If I didn't have about 50 bux worth of chems in it, I would have tossed it in the garbage.

Thanks for the comments. The fossil analogy is very interesting.
Right now, I'm out of work, so R&D funding is cut off.:( I'll report back after the next stage of testing. Jerry

Just remember - the worms feed on the cubes !!:101

Rhenium has a 5767°F melt point which is probably above what and arc could produce. It's close to being a refractory for t-mite almost.

Rhenium has a 5767°F melt point which is probably above what and arc could produce. It's close to being a refractory for t-mite almost.
Yes.
To be quite honest with you, I was surprised I got it all into solution. The niobium is also considered a refractory alloy. The 2 together, really suck the heat. Iron boils at around 5182 F, so the thermite is just the right window temperature and time wise.

Chigger really got me thinking about his statement about the formation of the intermetallic filaments. The way it's produced might be as important to the making of this steel, than what's in it. That's why I like these forums. I love bouncing "what ifs" off peoples heads.

ust remember - the worms feed on the cubes !!
Before I knew what they were, I called them sand worms and Borg cubes.:D

Sorry for the double post, but i thought i would post a video of one of my refractory alloy runs, if you haven't seen it yet. This is of a tungsten alloy. You can clearly hear the iron boiling. Typically, I lose around 4% of the iron in a large run, due to boiling off.
It's a real tight tolerance TT zone where you need the extreme heat for uptake of the high refractory metals, and not holding it too long to boil off the iron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PwXN4ugDE4

Jerry,

The video is cool as heck, if not just a little insane. Boiling Iron in a 55 gallon drum...are you kidding. That's ingenuity at it's height.

I do have one suggestion. A more efficient ignition source would probably help stabilize the smelting process some and give you even more consistent results. It looked like there might have been some energy used up just getting going.

Ok, that's out of the way. I can think of about a hundred examinations of that stuff I'd like to do...if someone else was paying of course. ;~0

I'd like to find the true specific gravity of the cubes. Even if Dr. Scott is right about what they might be...man you were knockin' around electrons at a frantic rate. I kind of have a feelin' they're something unexpected.

Although I have a zillion questions, I do have two you can probably answer for me pretty easily.

First, have you put in an oven or heat source, that doesn't require high explosives that is, and just heated it to destruction? What did you observe?

Second, how conductive is it? I mean has any of those guys done a room temp conductivity test. Or have you stuck an ohm meter to it? You mentioned the possibility of super conductor applications, but most of that stuff has to be super cooled to be the least conductive, right?

Oh, and your right if you're thinking what I think you're thinking and that's kind of what I was thinking when I was thinking out loud about the cubes. ;~)

You may be making little Borg cubes and the really cool alloy with it's sand worms may be incomplete or unfulfilled cubes. Or, maybe the other way around!

chiger,

Hi Chiger,
The little puffing is not the thermite trying to ignite. I use a kids fire work called a "strobe light". I find the pulsing action of the little fire work, ignites the thermite better than magnesium ribbon or a sparkler. The actual charge does not ignite until you see the yellow flame through the top vent. I pack my charges so they burn slow and hot.

The early sem reports are that the filaments are an unidentified heavy metal. Since I used only 1 heavy metal, and the sem can not identify it, it should be a rhenium intermetallic. A note here; There were trace metals in the meteorites I used as a Ferro nickel source, but most should have burned up and they only were ppm. The meteorites themselves were only 4 - 6% of the total anyway.

You bring up another very thoughtful observation;
When I worked for the Navy, I remember that mag fields were used to contain the plasma plume on solid rocket motors. Thermite is very very close to an upside down solid rocket motor. I've always wondered what type of em field a big run throws off. also if you could manipulate the liquid metal and/or flame from the outside. The temp at the flame is estimated at close to 8000 F in a big run with the lid on. That's lower fusion temp. That's why I call the furnace "star chamber":D

Your statement about the electrons having a part in the formation of the cubes is very intriguing. I will find out when I get a chance to conventionally melt some more, and see if they form.

Thanks for the interest and stimulating conversation. Jerry

EDIT: I have 1 little piece left. I don't have the heart to burn it up.:D
I promised Tai a chunk, so we can get some neotribal feedback on how it handles in the forge. Which reminds me, I need to find the right forging temp first.

Jerry,

Ok, I understand the appearance when it started out now. I was going to suggest a little solid rocket starter. But it's about the same thing. Just remote started.

You bring up something I'd like to know. I wonder if the filaments would aline them selfs along lines of force if you use a powerful electric field, like a big old 100 HP DC electric motor case around the reactor crucible.

Of course you'd need to protect it with a good blanket, but something you could conceivably do at home and it would be interesting to see what would happen. Maybe that's something for that R&D position when you get it. ;~)

Anyway, can't wait to see what Tia does with it. Should be cool.

chiger,

I've played around with mag fields and t-mite a little in the past. I'll post a page out of my note book. I was fooling around with the delta iron, and trying to see what a fairly strong, static field would do do it. This was a few years ago when my system was open.

i doubt the filaments will respond to a mag field though. The plasma sure should, in some way. Re has an "anti magnetic" character. BTW, rhenium is the only metal that is malleable from absolute zero, all the way to it's melting point. So this steel would have excellent creep resistance in a very wide temperature range.

The filaments would orient them selves during forging anyway. Sort of a high tech wrought iron, I would imagine.

About the superconductor, when you add nitrogen, (nitriding for example), you can form a hexagonal close packed allotrope. Thus a possible ferro superconductor. We will see about that though.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6397/notesmagig3.jpg

I forgot to post the results of one of the mag experiments. This is a small ingot, that formed in the doughnut magnets field. it made,... well, a doughnut. It was also very coarse and "hairy". Maybe the delta ferrite trying to escape through the lines of the mag field, just before it froze.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/8435/hockeypuckeh1.jpg

Now that's what I call a response. Iron doughnuts. Cool. And glad to know I'm not the only one with notebooks full of crazy looking drawings. ;~)

You're right, it would probably take a heck of a field to effect the electron orbits of a metal that stable and dense. Then it would mess with everything else so much that the alloy, if you even got one would be scrap.

Although...wonder what an AC field would do to your iron experiment? A orbiting field around it..?

But what I was thinking about with aligning the filaments during smelting was for specialized structural applications that require casting. You know, like high tech auto or aerospace engine components. But if it happen that readily during forging it would probably happen if it were cast. If it can even be cast?

What made you think of alloying rh in iron without carbon. What characteristics of rhenium and niobium got you going on the ideal. I know you said it was unexpected, but I take it you were trying to produce non stainless super alloy of some sort.

Just wondering.

chiger,

Although...wonder what an AC field would do to your iron experiment? A orbiting field around it..?
Youre gonna think this is weird, but you would get an anti gravity generator. No, really. It's a phenomena called, are you ready..... magnetohydrodynamics. Google it. Trust me. It's also how they produce a "caterpillar" drive on silent subs. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/06/23/flying-saucer-uav.html

I was studying platinum group metals in iron alloys, and was quite impressed on the creep resistance and toughness it imparts. My first choice was rhodium. Didn't feel like seeling my car to afford some, so i settled on rhenium. Good thing, as I think it has way more promise.
I added the niobium as a grain refiner. I had a lot of success with it in the recent past. great alloy. I was going to leave out the carbon to make pounding out the ingot easier. Just carburize the stock later.
I just wanted to be the first kid on the block with a rhenium, niobium, nickel alloy knife.:D

Jerry, it's columbium , columbium , Cb !:rolleyes:

Yeah, you're right, but these youngins' probably never heard of columbium. The spell check doesn't even recognize it, but it does niobium. That's anti-American.

Nope, not weird Jerry. I've heard and seen the phenomenon. Heck, I've seen a frog float. ;~0

Just didn't dawn on me that a field of lower intensity would effect your process that much more dramatically. But, it makes sense now that you say it. Elements tend to be self attractive/segregating in a neutral or weightless environment. Self segregation would not be good if you're going for homologous product. Oh well! That kicks that can off the side of the road. ;~)

"I just wanted to be the first kid on the block with a rhenium, niobium, nickel alloy knife."

Oh, so you were showing off! I see now...that's how you are. Seriously, that's how some of the greatest advances in history have been made. Passion leads to experimentation and it's inevitable mistakes. Some of those have turned out to be great advances. I hope this works out that way.

I'd love to be able to say, "Hey, I was pickin' that guy's brain on TKN when he was still blowin' stuff up in the back yard."

Oh, and the selling the car part. We had a sample of that stuff in the lab of one of my college chem courses. It was so small it was hard to see and I think the professor said it was like 6 grand. I understand completely. I was amazed to hear production cost made it and some others way more expensive than any other even refined precious metal or gem stones.

Loved those classes. Should have gone that way instead of computers. Maybe I could understand at least half of what guys like you and mete are saying! ;~)

chiger,

Oh, so you were showing off! I see now...that's how you are. Seriously, that's how some of the greatest advances in history have been made. Passion leads to experimentation and it's inevitable mistakes. Some of those have turned out to be great advances. I hope this works out that way.
Not so much showing off, as I always have to do things different. There are many flops for every success.
I'd love to be able to say, "Hey, I was pickin' that guy's brain on TKN when he was still blowin' stuff up in the back yard."
Actually you CAN say that. You gave me some cool things to think about. Edison was no genius, he said so himself. He surrounded himself with knowledgeable people, and just used a little imagination and a lot of determination. That's all. I kind of have the same approach.

Columbium and niobium are the same element. It was discovered by Americans, but the Europeans "discovered" it a little later and called it niobium. The latter name kind of stuck. Sounds more exotic.:D

Hey, didn't the French claim some guy had been crashin' all over France for 2 years before the Wright brothers and Kitty Hawk? ;~)

Sounds about right.

chiger,

Showing off is posting something like a knife and not providing any info on the techniques or processes used. Jerry has been the polar opposite and gone the extra mile to make his discovery a learning experience for all of us that may be interested. That includes posting any and all of the "anomolies" he encountered along the way.

He has also had more then his share of antagonists and know-it-alls question nearly every one of his posts on another forum. I asked him to post this here in the company of more civil members. It's also the antithesis of what this sub-forum is all about. The dialog between him, mete and chiger more then validates that.

That includes posting any and all of the "anomolies" he encountered along the way.

Some of those are quite spectacular and entertaining.:D
He has also had more then his share of antagonists and know-it-alls question nearly every one of his posts on another forum. I asked him to post this here in the company of more civil members. It's also the antithesis of what this sub-forum is all about. The dialog between him, mete and chiger more then validates that.
Kind of weird that. i got banned from a metallurgical forum I belonged to for years. All I did was ask the pros what I just made in my back yard. The responses were friendly and helpful. The next day, I was banned and got the thread deleted.:( No explanation. *shrug*

Anyway, back to the topic, Brent, I just remebered that they made a substance harder than diamond with rhenium. It ties in with your arc furnace, as they used,.... well an arc furnace to make it. it only has 2 ingredients. Rhenium and boron, which ties in with me, as it is on my patent for a hardening chem, along with nitrogen.

Google rheniumdiboride. I forgot about that.
Thanks for the welcome here folks, Jerry

Is that similar to boride coating? A friend of mine is tool grinder at Boeing and he has been telling me about the new coating system he is learning on now. He has given me a few high speed cutters with the coating and it does hold up longer then Ti nitride.

He also told me how simple the Ti nitride coating system is. That will be another scaled down version I will be playing with soon. I allready have all the components needed.

Boron is used for coating and alloying to increase hardness. The military uses it for certain armor plates. We use it (at Boeing), for the plates inside our shot peen machines and cutter coatings.
Rhenium diboride is an alloy of rhenium and boron.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhenium_diboride
Your friend must work at the Auburn plant. I worked in tool salvage for a year, and wrote many a special grind order for those.

When you get your Ti coating up, let me know, I might have you do some fittings in the future.
My steel should harden up nice with a small amount, and lose little toughness, (I'm hoping).
I have some ferro boron that would work quite nice in a melt.

Ahhh....Mr. Finnigan, you are the culprit I have to thank for my headaches and bleeding from the ears. ;~) Just kiddin', I like feeling inadequate. It's my natural state.

An Jerry, I'd kick your butt off too if you were impertinent enough to ask a question my genius could not answer. Of course, we know that's not possible. ;~0

Hey, since we're on tooling. I've worked in the hardwood timber industry for some years. We used something called stelite on our band saws. Have you heard of it? And what the heck is it? Because it is pretty tough stuff. Way better than carbide.

chiger,

I remember reading up on Talonite and Stellite. It looks like some challenging stuff to work with but has it uses.

From Wikipedia:

Stellite alloy is a range of cobalt-chromium alloys designed for wear resistance. It may also contain tungsten and a small but important amount of carbon. It is a trademarked name of the Deloro Stellite Company and was invented by Elwood Haynes[1] in the early 1900s as a substitute for flatware that stained (or that had to be constantly cleaned).
Properties
Stellite alloy is a completely non-magnetic and non-corrosive cobalt alloy. There are a number of Stellite alloys, with various compositions optimised for different uses. Information is available from the manufacturer, Deloro Stellite, outlining the composition of a number of Stellite alloys and their intended applications. The alloy currently most suited for cutting tools, for example, is Stellite 100, because this alloy is quite hard, maintains a good cutting edge even at high temperature, and resists hardening and annealing due to heat. Other alloys are formulated to maximize combinations of wear resistance, corrosion resistance, or ability to withstand extreme temperatures.
Stellite alloys display astounding hardness and toughness, and are also usually very resistant to corrosion. Stellite alloys are so hard that they are very difficult to machine, and anything made from them is, as a result, very expensive. Typically a Stellite part will be very precisely cast so that only minimal machining will be necessary. Machining of Stellite is more often done by grinding, rather than by cutting. Stellite alloys also tend to have extremely high melting points due to the cobalt and chromium content.

Alpha knife supply carries Talonite if you ever want to get some to paly with.
http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/talonite.htm

Jerry, yes he has worked there for 25 years now and has kept me supplied with some interesting tooling bits. Stuff that was headed for the recycle bin gets ah......recycled but just in a different shop.:rolleyes:

I just got 40 Kennametal carbide inserts that he re-sharpened for me. They are used on a rotary fly cutter type head. But I made lathe chisel holders for them instead.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/BrentFinnigan/bitholders.jpg

I have plans to make a face mill to accomadate them also. The one I am using now has four indexable bits that cost $14 a piece.

Gee Brent, after the strike, you should go for a tool design job at the lazy B. :101

When i was doing some research on nitrogen and boron hardening, almost all the sites were in Russian. I think the west is falling a bit behind in that area of metallurgy.

BTW, it's interesting that boron forms a covalent bond with rhenium. That means at least an intermatallic, although technically a "molecule" . I get flack for that term also.:D
Did I mention I need a grant??:lol
I actually asked the company for one before this project. Just a small one to cover supplies.
They kind of politely chuckled until they saw the result.;)

Boeing seems to politely chuckle at alot of people. I believe their chuckling is costing them $100k per day now. And thier Dreamliner is pretty much still a dream for the customers.

Large corporations always develop the NIH [not invented here ] syndrome ! That can cost them many millions !!

Large corporations always develop the NIH [not invented here ] syndrome ! That can cost them many millions !!
Well, i signed a patent clause when i was hired, but at least their refusal to help me out, means that it is all mine and Dr. Scott's. Their loss I guess. I'd sell it to them for 2 to the tenth power of what I originally asked now.:D