Veteran's Day is recognized on November 11th in the USA. I'd like to propose a project to honor all those who have served in harms way.

Four knifemaker's are needed.

"The Driver"
Conceives the basic design and profile and does the primary grinding to about 80%-90% complete.

"The Chef"
Heat treats and does secondary grinding to final proportions and finish. Provides funds for shipping to eventual owner.

"The Doctor"
Selects and installs handle material. Sharpens and finishes the knife.

"The Tailor"
Designs and creates a sheath to compliment the design of the knife. Photographs knife or has it done by competent individual.

The idea here is to create a unique collaborative knife that represents the finest effort of all those involved. The knife would be auctioned off with 100% of the proceedes to benefit a veteran's charity to be selected in discussions between the four makers involved.

In keeping with the guiding principals of this forum, this project is open to all, not just 'Americans' and the veteran's organization to receive the funds can be any that is agreed upon by the makers. This will be decided before the project begins.

VERY high quality materials and work is desired. If you wish to volunteer for one of the four slots, choose the one that represents your strength as a maker.

Due to the nature of the project, edge or clay quenched carbon steel is preferred since the 'Doctor' may have to drill holes in the tang for handle instalation. If it is preferred by the team to go with stainless, then arrangements will have to made and those with the tools, digital kilns, etc., to work this steel will have to be on board. No outsourcing for HT.

"The Chef" was taxed with the shipping fees to the end owner since his/her duties require no actual materials costs other than belts, polish, FC, etc. The other three makers bear the expenses of good steel, premium handle material, leather, etc.

Makers who are veterans themselves or who have a very warm place in their heart for veterans are encouraged to participate.

The Driver will have the knife for March and April and ship by May 1st to the Chef.
The Chef will have it for May and June and ship to the Doctor by July 1st.
The Doctor will be in posession for July and August and send to the Tailor by Sept. 1st.
The Tailor has September and October to get it 'dressed' and photographed.
The auction will be the first week of November and the knife should be in the hands of the new owner by Veteran's Day.

If more than 4 makers are willing to step up to this considerable challenge, we will start a second team and a second knife, and so on if there are more still.

Pictures of the knife can be posted in progress, but no discussion between makers as far as design or style should be decided in commitee. Each maker is solely responsible for his creative duties and is to be totaly trusted. No maker will alter the work of a previous participant beyond what is needed to complete his own task.

We have this month to discuss this project. I'd like to see it up and running by March 1st. There's no reason why this should interfere too greatly with a maker's other projects, since only a portion of the knife is required.

As a veteran of the US Army, I'd like to volunteer for the honor of being the 'Driver' and do the profile design and primary grinding.

The floor is open...

As an old veteran this is one of the greatest, oringinal, and most creative ideas in knife making I have ever heard of! I only wish I had the talent to participate. I hope once the project starts, you will be able to keep us all in on the progress, with pics!
GOOD LUCK!!!!! :bow

Andy,
I would like to participate. I don't do tacticals but I'm in for heat treat, so sign me in for a Chef. This will be my first KITH. I hope it will make someone proud. No high alloy or Stainless please.


Scott

The time line works for me on the Doctor. If there is another team I'm open for each of the other spots but the sheath with Driver if a second team and Chef if there is a third. As this is working for strengths, sheaths & pics are not mine.

Jim

Andy-
Awesome idea!! Unfortunately I don't have the skills necessary to do any of the steps justice. I do however have an idea on how I can participate. I've been making homemade "micarta" for a while now with decent success. I've been thinking about taking some of my old BDUs (Battle Dress Uniforms) that I wore while serving in Bosnia and turning them into micarta. I'd be happy to do this for the Doctor to install. What do you guys think?
-Dave

This sounds great.wish I could play,but think I might be a little thin right now.Just accepted an order for 5 new ones.Will be watching closely.Need lots of pics and updates.

J. Scott,

Just to clarify, this is not neccessarily a tactical. The Driver will send you something to work with without you having much if any heads-up on the design. That's entirely up to him (me if there is no objection, since I volunteered for the position).

As the chef, you would be responsible for more than the heat treat. This is perhaps the most crucial step where quality of work is concerned, because in addition to the HT, you would do all the finish grinding and provide the finished product where the steel is concerened. That finish would be up to you. Mirrored, satin, etched, bead blasted, dura-coated, whatever--just so long as it is ready for a handle and sharpening when it gets to the doctor. The chef would also forward the final shipping funds to the tailor for delivery to the buyer.

I wasn't sure, based on your response, if you caught the entire scope of the chef's responsibility. Let us know if you still feel up to it based on all this. I don't think I've ever seen your work, but I'd love to have you on board if cool with all the details.:)

Dave,

I've been wanting to try some BDU phenolic too! I've never seen it though. So, since the idea is to use premium stuff, you should whip up a batch and see what it looks like, how it grinds, polishes, etc. I have no doubt it would be strong, but we should have a working knowledge of the appearance before we commit to it.

In the end, this selection is up to the Doctor. Remember, we are trusting the creativity of the person doing the work. Jim is the first to step up for that position, so if he is to be the Doctor, the thing to do would be to offer the material to him for his stage of the work. He may choose it as a handle or even a bolster material. It's up to him.

I think first though..., make some and let's get a look at it.

Let's keep the the discussion going!

man i wish my skill level was up to par so i could contribute.....sounds like a great idea, but ill have to wait a couple years.

Andy-
Good point - I have no idea what it's going to look like either. I'll try to whip some up this weekend. It takes a few days to dry so I should be able to get some pics up next week.
-Dave

Andy,
No problem with the finish on the blade. Ht skills are O.K. I am tempering in a kitchen oven but have had good success with that. I usually drill the tang for handle material before quenching so this may present a problem for the Doctor to drill after the blade is hardened.


Scott

BTW Andy,

If this project comes together, could you send some scrap steel to the Chef in order to test for RC hardness. I have a neighbor that has access to a machine at his work and can run a test for us.

Scott

I can do the driver part if i can get my tendonitis under control. How would a forged blade in W2 sound? Although I would probaby have to heat reat it too because apprently W2 can be a bit tricky. I could also use 5160, 1080 or O1 and do the heat treat if that would make life easier for the next guy. Finishing is enough work for any one man with one of my blades...lol. Maybe the chef could be responsible for selecting and roughing out the guard and other hardware.
Joe

J. Scott,

We can avoid tang hardness problems by edge quenching the bade or by using satanite for a clay quench. PM me if you have any questions on this process... super easy and make (IMHO) a better blade due to differential HT.

Everyone,

I'd like to see two of these get going! One stock removal full tang and a forged stick tang.

So far we have the following volunteers:
Driver (profile, and primary grinding):
Andy Garrett
Joe (jdm61)
Carl Price

Chef (heat treat, blade finishing):
J. Scott

Doctor (handle and sharpening)
Jim Drouillard

Tailor (sheath)
Carl Price (if no one else steps up)
Andrew Garrett (in the event we get a second knife going)

Andy,
Lets kick it up a notch. I have 2 pcs of 3/16 x 1 1/4 x 9" random damascus that I would be willing to donate. Questions can be directed to me about heat treating and finishing for this steel. Although this does rule out differential heat treating. ( I think it takes away from the beauty of the steel.)

Wow Delbert! That's huge!

Ok... let me think here... There are details to work out... I'll get back to you all shortly.

Andy,
Lets kick it up a notch. I have 2 pcs of 3/16 x 1 1/4 x 9" random damascus that I would be willing to donate. Questions can be directed to me about heat treating and finishing for this steel. Although this does rule out differential heat treating. ( I think it takes away from the beauty of the steel.)
Ok...now I am officially intimidated....thanks Del.....lol

I would love to be a driver on one of these. The forge is what I love. However, I am not an expert at sheathmaking, but I would also be willing to be the Tailor on one if better sheathmakers are not forthcoming.

--Carl

Delbert,

Do you think a neck quench just under where the front of the handle would go would work for your steel? That way we can keep the tang soft enough for the doctor to drill holes, or should we make it so that the driver drills the holes and that's what the doctor uses to fit a handle? I'm thinking in terms of a full tang here, but the same issue exist for a stick tang.


Scott,

Are you set up to finish damscus? I can help with that if need be.


Here is how I see it thus far:

Knife #1 (full tang / Ealy damascus)
Driver: Andy Garrett (this design will not require a guard)
Chef: J. Scott
Doctor: Jim Drouillard
Tailor: Carl Price

Knife #2 (Ealy damascus is available if the driver wishes to use it)
Driver: Joe (jdm61) Indicates he is willing to HT if the chef would tackle a guard
Chef:
Doctor:
tailor: Andy garrett

Knife#3 (TBA)
Driver: Carl Price
Chef:
Doctor:
Tailor:

Absolutly none of this is engraved in stone fellas. I'm just trying to get organized.
Joe, if you'd rather work steels you are familiar with, you could pass Delbert's damascus on to Carl. Or, if your tendons don't feel some relief, you might consider stepping into the role of Chef or Doctor on blade #2 and Carl could step into being the Driver. You spoke up first sir, so the option is yours.

Delbert,

Do you think a neck quench just under where the front of the handle would go would work for your steel? That way we can keep the tang soft enough for the doctor to drill holes, or should we make it so that the driver drills the holes and that's what the doctor uses to fit a handle? I'm thinking in terms of a full tang here, but the same issue exist for a stick tang.


Scott,

Are you set up to finish damscus? I can help with that if need be.


Here is how I see it thus far:

Knife #1 (full tang / Ealy damascus)
Driver: Andy Garrett (this design will not require a guard)
Chef: J. Scott
Doctor: Jim Drouillard
Tailor: Carl Price

Knife #2 (Ealy damascus is available if the driver wishes to use it)
Driver: Joe (jdm61) Indicates he is willing to HT if the chef would tackle a guard
Chef:
Doctor:
tailor: Andy garrett

Knife#3 (TBA)
Driver: Carl Price
Chef:
Doctor:
Tailor:

Absolutly none of this is engraved in stone fellas. I'm just trying to get organized.
Joe, if you'd rather work steels you are familiar with, you could pass Delbert's damascus on to Carl. Or, if your tendons don't feel some relief, you might consider stepping into the role of Chef or Doctor on blade #2 and Carl could step into being the Driver. You spoke up first sir, so the option is yours.
I'll do a carbon steel blade. That way i can take a couple of runs at it if need be......i would HATE to have to secretly buy a couple of more pieces of Del's steel after i screwed up the one he so generously donated...lol. Tendonitis is about gone an I have been using to time to actually finish some knives :) What is the time frame for having the projects finished? I suspect it will be a bit before Veterans day :) Another thought. Since these will be collaborative efforts, should we come up with a special logo to use in lieu of the Drivers mark? This would say that it would probably have to be electro etchedas opposed to being stamped, cuz stamps are X-PENSIVE even if you are going to use them more than 3 times......lol. I also would like to suggest (and this may be real obvious, but I'll say it anyway) that the Drivers take their rough inspiration from any decent sized fixed blade knife that might have been on the hip or web gear of a soldier in combat. That can cover a lot of territory. Everything from an Ames rifleman's knife to a Loveless chute or Moran ST23. Imagine a Ka Bar inspired knife with a Delbert Early blade some wild burl handle....that would be cool. And the billets that he has so generously offered to donate are JUST the right size for anything short of a big bowie :) I would suggest that whoever works with the damascus stick to stock removal just to avoid any mishaps. i know most of you guys have more time in the trenhes than i, but why take a chance whenDel has already done all of the hard work...lol.They are random pattern billets, so we don't have to worry about forging to shape so that the pattern follows the curve of the blade.

Andy,
a "neck quench" should work just fine. The steel is 1095 15n20 and a little mild steel to drop the carbon content a bit.
Joe,
Forging this mix is a dream, don't be intimitated by it. Thanks for all the positive comments.
Thanks guys,
Del

I'll doctor the other two if no one steps up but as I don't use carbide bits I will need to have the tangs soft unless the handle is part of the blade design & the holes are already punched.

Here is an example from the site I got the material from of some handle material I'd like to donate to one of the knives I do the handle on:

http://www.greatrough.com/images/seraphinite_cab381.jpg

So if one of the drivers wants to do a dress style let me know. I can do a small EDC or a hunter with about 3.5" - 4" handle. If not I have other materials.

I also have some more of the USS Constitution wood and copper plate from my second trip to the ship to deliver the project knife to the Captain. While I will donate this I can't really make it a selling point as they weren't able to give out papers (again) with it.

I will send the wood to someone if they choose doctor on one but the seraphinite I get to do the finishing on:p .

Jim

Ok. So... Here's what we have for now. I'll use some of Delbert's random and work it a bit on the anvil to form the tip, but the bevels will depend on what Scott can work with.

I can do a flat grind or a hollow with an 8" wheel. If you don't have an 8" wheel Scott, I'll do the flat. Let me know what I'm limited to since you'll have to finish my bevels.

Del, Thanks for the HT info. Scott, you should plan on a neck quench so Jim can drill his own holes and stretch his creative legs on the handle.

Jim, I make larger knives than you do in general. A profile from me will have a handle around 4.5"-5" depending on what I go with (hey, I'm a big guy). If the stuff you want to use, isn't quite long enough, then do some kind of composite or a bolster, or use that awesome looking stuff as the bolster itself. I know you'll figure something out brother!

As far as it being a dressy knife, yea! I was leaning toward a combat style profile inspired by the great bayonets and fighting knives of the 20th century, but even the toughest troops have dress uniforms!

Joe, The time frames are explained in the original post. Each maker gets the knife for roughly 60 days. We should be done by Nov 1st. As far as a maker's mark is concerned... let's kick that around a bit. Everyone does it differently. Perhaps no mark on the blade, but a certificate of origin with that info and an explaination of the project could go with the knife to the new owner. Just a thought.

Carl, It looks like there's another piece of Del's damascus to be used unless he talks Joe into it. If we get enough interest to do a third, you're the driver. I'd do triple duty if I had to and Jim has offered to be the Doctor on all three if need be, but I'd really like to see some diversity in the participants. Part of the idea is to not create too much work for any one person. I have you as the tailor on #1 right now too.

We're still shuffling around though. I'd like to be solid on at least one knife by the 1st of March. Two would be great! Three would be awesome! If the second and third get late starts, so be it.

You go with your design & I'll work with it. I have quite a selection of materials including some fibermascus that alternates tan & a reddish brown giving a desert camo look to it. I have some 65 year old fence posts made from bois de arc that when you remove the outer layers is an incredible dark golden brown. I have some amazing feathered black walnut crotch. I even can make a set of scales out of stacked leather that would still give the picture of a hidden tang stacked handle on a full tang.

Trust me I got it covered. I'll save the seraphinite for another if it doesn't work.

Jim

P.S. I can do the chef on one but I'm not that great with carbon HT, I work mostly in stainless

Ok,I can't stand it put me in as the doctor on #2.I'll do the guard also if noone objects.
Just so I got it :I'd be doing the handle guard and final finish ? Oh yea and sharpening.

I would love to work with a piece of Delbert's damascus. It will be forged, because the knife will be better from me if I forge it. I have made it to the point in my forging that the knife will be better than any stock removal from me would be.

This will be a good experience!

--Carl

Andy,

I can finish damascus or differential HT with satinte or edge quech what ever might be needed.

Scott

Just read all the above posts;
I think an Electro-etching to comemerate this knife would be great. Either the Chef or Doctor could apply it, but it needs to be special.
Andy I have a Grizzley grinder with an 8" wheel. I like flat grinding better in most cases because it gives a little more back-up to the edge of the blade. If push comes to shove I can take it over to the brother-in-law's place and use his variable speed KMG. ( BIL= Robert Dark)

If someone comes up with a design, I can cut the stencil, and send it to the Chef or the Doctor.

Andy, get me the steel, and I will have thought out a basic plan by the 1st of March and ready to start.

--Carl

about the only thing i could contribute is filework and handles, if anyone is interested.

Ok,I can't stand it put me in as the doctor on #2.I'll do the guard also if noone objects.
Just so I got it :I'd be doing the handle guard and final finish ? Oh yea and sharpening.
Guard and finish, my man. but not to worry if you are working with me. We have very similr ideas regarding what a soldier's knife should look like. since i am going to forge it anyway, I will send it to you already heat treated after grinding to 120 grit but with the crud still on the blade and sufficient edge thickness so you have a relatively blank canvas to work with. The person who does the handle will have no choice but to follow our evil design....suffice to say that you two guys will probably be doing finish, handle, guard and BUTTCAP too.......muah,ha,ha,ha :)

Unless I read it wrong I'll be doing the handle also.I do have something in mind although the blade will definatly dictate the handle.And the buttcap.I get to see it finished first.Lucky me
That would make you the driver and the Chef.( if you do the heat treat).Then I'll send the finished knife to Andrew for a new pair of shoes.

Driver and maybe prep chef, but you get to be the executive chef and finish it off....:D Since we still have to fill one more roster, maybe you and I can do 3 jobs since Andy has already voluteered for 2. I cold send you a finished blade ready to rock and you do up all of the fittings. That would, in theory, give each of us 45 days from the start time. That will also make it easier on everyone to fill out the 3rd team. Comments anyone? That would leave you damascus mangling guys the chance maybe to do one stick tang (like the KaBar inspired knife someone was talking about in here...hint, hint.....lol) and one full tang knife from Del's steel.:D i propose another possible idea. In the spirit of Del's generous contribution, how about we allow people from different teams to maybe do some horse trading of any obscure and exotic raw materials AFTER they decide what their design will be. The no crosstalk with you own team members rule would also apply to other team mebers disclosing what they swapped. Anybody game? These are going to be some fancy knives (translated,,X-PENSIVE raw materials if yo have to run out and buy them) and if any of us have some cool stuff lyiing around the house, like Del's steel, those osage orange fenceposts or some of my crazy wood collection, wrought iron anchor chain and silver wire, that could be fun and save some time and money. The trick would be how to keep the info about what you might have on the QT from your teamates.

Who's on first? :lol

Ok. From Joe and Andy's conversation, I gathered that they were basically willing to split the chef duties between them, making this a three stop knife. Cool! That would be fine. That means #2 is a go!

Derek, I plugged you in as the Doctor on #3 since you said you could do a handle. If you want to do some filework, go for it!

Knife #1 (full tang / Ealy damascus)
Driver: Andy Garrett (this design will not require a guard)
Chef: J. Scott
Doctor: Jim Drouillard
Tailor: Carl Price

Knife #2 (forged carbon)
Driver: Joe (jdm61) Indicates he is willing to HT if the chef would tackle a guard
Chef: HT done by Joe / blade finish done by Andy S.
Doctor: Andy Sharpe
Tailor: Andy Garrett

Knife#3 (forged Ealy damascus)
Driver: Carl Price
Chef:
Doctor: Derek Parker
Tailor:

Joe we cross posted, but both said the same thing.

As for the horse trading, Awesome! I like it!

Scott, If Robert Dark is your brother in law, then I know you have the tools you need to work whatever I send you. Could be hollow, could be flat..., we'll see ;)

BTW Roberts new plowshare #2 was down right spirtual for me. Guys, check it out in the display case!

BTW, I have stabilized ancient Kauri. RARE!

I think that pretty well say's it.Joe,Andrew,we be makin a knife.
Andrew I could personally use a small piece of that Kauri.About a 1"x1.5"x5".What would be the price on such a piece

wow, thanks for including me.....i am already anticipating this knife. luckily i have time to get my skills better.
andrew, could you tell me what the ancient Kauri is? maybe a pic? never heard of it before.
thanks again guys, im really excited for this one.

Andy, I have looked at getting some Kauri, how do you like it?

--Carl

Derek,heres' a link that tells you about Kauri
www.ancientwood.com
neat stuff

I heard about ancient Kauri on the History Channel. As long as 50,000 years ago (that would be 48,000 years before Christ walked the Earth to put it in context), Giant Kauris (which were big like redwoods) grew in New Zealand. They fell into swamps and sunk into to oxygen free pete where over the millinea, They were encased and preserved, free of decay. All the years of O2 free ground water washing through the wood grain creates a unique 3d shimmer similar to tiger's eye. It's not as exotic looking as some of the crazy burls we see around here, but the warm shimmer has entranced me for life. No picture can show that shimmer--you have to hold it. My EDC has a kauri handle.

In recent history, farmers in New Zealand were trying to level their fields and when attempting to break down these humps in the ground, found giant trees! They are actually mined now and then the ground is returned to normal for minimum environmental impact.

Kauri is a protected species of tree in New Zealand now and the grow nowhere else. Hence, ancient kauri is quite rare in the grand scheme of things and kauri lumber is as pricey as any wood you can buy and more so.

I did some research and found only one US importer. I bought a 'chip' of root wood for good grain activity and made my EDC with some of that. I also talked Dave Peterson into getting in touch with them and he bought some great stuff too. He had it stabilized and I have only two small pieces from his batch and some of my own unstabilized private stock. Dave may have more--he had it for sale in the classifieds not long ago.

You can read much more about Kauri and buy direct from www.ancientwood.com
They are great to work with.

Andy, My kauri is cut into scales. If that works for you and you wanna do some trading, let me know what ya got!

My EDC - unstabilized kauri finshed to 1000 grit and rubbed with tung oil (kind of a dark pic--sorry)
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/Yellow_Bird_main.JPG

Unless there are objections or changes, I think we are a go on #1 and #2. We still need some people to step up on #3 if it is to happen. I'll be the tailor if no one steps up by the 1st of March.

Have some nice stabilized Box Elder burl scales.Also have some Girraffe bone.scales
Are the scales stabilized?

Some of the pieces of Kauri on that website almost look like amber from some angles. I may have to grabme a piece or two to add to my excessive exotic wood collection. Anybody from team 1 or 3 can drop me a line and i will tell you what i have but remember......its a secret....shhhhhh:)

I've got it both ways Andy, but I'll take official inventory when I get home in the morning.

My unstabilized stuff has the best figure, but it's not as dense as most handle material. I need to send it to WSSI, but it's already cut into scales. I just need to make my own stabilizer.

thanks for the link guys. that looks like some REALLY pretty stuff.
ive already got ideas runnin through my head, but its hard to plan without seeing.....oh well, just means i have to play with more handle material.....oh darn :)

Andy,

If no one wants to "Chef" #3, I can take both of the first two steps on. So if no one steps up by the 1st of March, I will "Chef" it too.

I think I will fire up the forge this weekend and do a plain carbon feel out run for this one. I have a steel that matches Delbert's damascus piece, and this will give me a feel for how I want the lines to fall out.

--Carl

Ok fellas,

This has had plenty of time to sink in I think. Everyone has stepped up to fill almost all the gaps. By my count, we need only a Tailor on #3 to get three knives going on the 1st of March.

If you wish to bow out or want to get in, lets finalize the details this week so we can kick it off. I'll post an official list on the first.

This will be a 'project in the background' given the time we're giving to it and the liesurely pace we've set (8 months). If you commit to this, please try and stick with it since others are counting on your efforts to finish the project. Some of you won't get you hands on a blade to work with for months, but keep up to speed on where the project is at.

I'm excited about these three knives!

All we need to do now is decide on a beneficiary. I'll cast my vote for the Veterans of Foriegn Wars (VFW) general fund. Throw out your ideas. We could do different recipients for each knife too.

The floor is open.

This is supposed to be a great organization

http://www.semperfifund.org/

Somewhat specific in target, but good.

The Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund
The Injured Marine Semper Fi Fund helps Marines, sailors, and their families meet their financial needs during difficult times. The Fund works closely with the Marine Corps, the Navy, and hospitals nationwide to identify and assess the needs of specific families. The application is easy to complete, the evaluation process is thorough, and assistance is typically delivered within 72 hours of the request.

Some others worthy of note

http://www.oeffamilyfund.org/
http://www.fisherhouse.org/
http://www.fallenpatriotfund.org/

These all came from http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/oifassist

--Carl

If you guys want I can check with my connections with the various historical ships and see about getting materials to make a knife to be auctioned for their funds. I probably won't go with the Constitution again but I know many of the people in charge of ships all around the country & I can check with them.

Jim

I was sorting through my steel and found a piece that i forgot that I had. It is an over sized bar of precision ground Latrobe O1 in 1 1/2 x 1/4+. i think I might pound it down for this project. My thinking was that not only is it hard to mess up because I have most of a 36 inch bar left , it is oversized and decarb free, but also, when I think about a lot of the classic miltary knives made from 1940-present, O1 and 1095 are two steels that come to mind. 1095 makes me think of KaBars and Air Force survival knives and O1 makes me think of old school Randalls, original Gerber Marks and and Bill Moran's damascus among many others. I think this would be a good choice for an old school knife for a veteran's project. :rockon:

Carl and Andy,
Pleas PM your adresses to me so I can get the steel off to you and so you can get started.
Thanks,
Del

PM inbound. Thank you for the steel, I think this is going to make a great knife.

--Carl

I go away for a little while and look what I miss.....

Great idea Andy!

Sure is some great talent involved here, rely looking forward to seeing how this turns out.

G.

Gary, Looks like there is still time to play if you want to! The blade I am driving still has spaces left!

--Carl

Delbert,

I received the billet today! Thank you. It's time to get to work!

This project is officially started!
Three knives--organizations to benefit from the auctions are 'to-be-announced'

Have fun fellas!

Here's the breakdown:

Gary, can we get you to be the chef on #3? Carl would send it to you the first of June. You'd have two months to do your thing and send it to Derek. I'm sure someone will step up to make a sheath when the time comes. I will if no one else does.

Knife #1 (full tang / Ealy damascus)
Driver: Andy Garrett (this design will not require a guard)
Chef: J. Scott
Doctor: Jim Drouillard
Tailor: Carl Price

Knife #2 (forged carbon)
Driver: Joe (jdm61) Indicates he is willing to HT if the chef would tackle a guard
Chef: HT done by Joe / blade finish done by Andy S.
Doctor: Andy Sharpe
Tailor: Andy Garrett

Knife#3 (forged Ealy damascus)
Driver: Carl Price
Chef:
Doctor: Derek Parker
Tailor:

Delbert,

I also just got home to a package with the billet. Thanks!

Time to start thinking, maybe I will be over this thing I caught to go out to the forge this weekend, I have some ideas for this one!

--Carl

Andy and Carl,
Glad to hear it! Have fun with the steel. It grinds and forges like a dream. I'm eager to see what you guys come up with.
Happy to help out.
Thanks,
Del

All right team #1, The design is done already!

I went with a full tang fighter/utility design with a thong-hole 'tab'/skull crusher protruding from the end (a feature similar to my Archangel design from the Ultimate combat/fighting knife KITH) I did this because I wanted to show off Del's beautiful damascus on both ends and between the scales!

The style is suitable for a knife to honor the military veterans among us and takes maximum advantage of the size off the billet I received.

I'll post pics as I go.

All right team #1, The design is done already!

I went with a full tang fighter/utility design with a thong-hole 'tab'/skull crusher protruding from the end (a feature similar to my Archangel design from the Ultimate combat/fighting knife KITH) I did this because I wanted to show off Del's beautiful damascus on both ends and between the scales!

The style is suitable for a knife to honor the military veterans among us and takes maximum advantage of the size off the billet I received.

I'll post pics as I go.
#2 design is getting finalized. I am thinking about a bowie style fighter the size and approximate shape of a Randall 14, but with a full height flat grind and hidden tang.

Sounds good Jim.I can't waite to get my hands on it.

I should get my part of this one knocked out this weekend. I'll post some pics if I can.

I'll send my profile sketch with the final grindlines I was envisioning as well as the handle profile it was designed for, included. These features are solely the province of the maker who is doing these steps, but I think it'll help make sense of the profile and pre HT grinding.

I'll grind to about 75-80% so we don't risk warpage.

Remember, we ship before the last day of this month!

My shop will be up & running in time for the Doctor part. Can't wait.

Jim

I have been playing around with the shape a bit. Did one "test" blade in 1075 with a curved clip and one full tang in W2 with a straight clip at Batsons. Haven't decided which i prefer, but i will probably attempt the actual blade tommorow. I think I will do one in W2 and one from the O1 bar i found and send the better of the two. I will probably use my Camillus Fisk OVB fighter as a size template because it is about the same dimensions as a Randall 14.
Joe

That C,F.OVB is a sweet design.
Joe its just you and me on this knife with Andrew making the sheath.Will you be sending me a finished blade ready for guard and handle?I have very limited experiance with non stainless steels.

I'll be ready. if a doctor doesn't jump in soon, I will do that stage on this knife also. Currently debating the full tang vs hidden tang. Will try and post pics after forging.

--Carl

That groundhog was full of #*!% man!

I've been hoping for a nice day to open up the garage and get to work... and we get snow today!

There's groundhog stew being served in Punxatauney! (I'm sure I murdered the spelling)

Don't worry Andrew, it is a great day today! Sunny, no wind, probably get into the 70's!

I am thinking of getting this one hammered out this weekend, hopefully that will happen, try and post picts as I go.

--Carl

That is the plan, Andy. As for minor finishing, I don't think W2 is going to be that different from what you use. Do you buff your blades? The quandry for me will be which one to send. I have a little 7 x 1 1/8-1/4 x 1/4 thick fighter blade set up to have the tang threaded. It is probably going to turn out pretty nice, but I just forged, rough ground and normalized a bigger 9 inch blade that would not be considered a military style knife unless you happened to be in the miltary in the mid 1800's BUT, it is probably the best blade i have forged to date......unless I manage to screw it up. It would also be a good challenge for you, Andy, in that is is quite different than anything you have on your website and might require you to stetch out a bit as far as the guard and handle design go. So......what do you think? And no, I'm not going to tell you exactly what style the blade is........that is part of the challenge. You have to decide sight unseen.:p
Joe

Andy,
I was sitting at the traffic light this morning getting jittery with antcipation about the blade coming my way. I can hardly wait. Need to get back into my shop this week-end and warm things up. I've been out of there for about three weeks now.
Last time I was in there was Fourth week in March, I was finishing an oyster knife for a trip to Apalachicola, FL .(oyster capital of the Gulf Coast). It worked great. But I haven't been back in the shop since.
Stay in touch, I keep an eye on the forums but seldom comment.

Joe,
I can buff or do a hand satin finish.Depends on the blade and the handle material it demands.I do like a challange.I will do my best to do justice to whichever you decide.This is a very nerve wracking thing.You can't even start to plan anything till you get the blade.This is great,because you'll be in the dark until Andrew finishes the sheath and posts the final pics.Or are we posting pics at the end of each stage?

Joe,
I can buff or do a hand satin finish.Depends on the blade and the handle material it demands.I do like a challange.I will do my best to do justice to whichever you decide.This is a very nerve wracking thing.You can't even start to plan anything till you get the blade.This is great,because you'll be in the dark until Andrew finishes the sheath and posts the final pics.Or are we posting pics at the end of each stage?
Opps!!!! too late......i got greedy and stamped my name on it. It is a 9 inch southwestern bowie. So a back to our regularly scheduled program:lol

Thats one way to make a keeper.Or after I finish I'll put my name under yours.Then Andrew can mark the sheath.Or I'll do whatever you send:p :p :help: :lol

Time's up!

Let's get 'em shipped to the next guy! The one in my care is going out tomorrow.

I finished number one to 120G. The bevels aren't as deep as I would've done if I were HTing it, but I thought I'd be cautious since that step is up to Scott and I'm not sure what he's planning.

I also left the tang undrilled, so Jim can have as much freedom as he needs with balancing the final weight and setting a pin pattern.

Scott, I went with an 8" wheel for the primary grinding, but it's up to you how to finish the bevels. I'll send my concept drawing with the knife. You may take what you wish from that, but the finish on the steel is up to you brother! Please send the concept drawing on to Jim when you finish with your part, so he can see what kind of handle I was thinking about when I designed the blade.

Jim, I did take the liberty of drilling a small thong hole in the rear part of the tang that was designed to protrude like a skull crusher (to show off Delbert's kick _ss damascus). You'll see what I mean when you see the drawing.

Have fum with it Scott! I'll take a picture in the morning before I head out to ship it.

Looking forward to it. Get 'er done!

I'm available if you need some help on the third one as well.

Jim

Jim,

There are two slots on that one, I was going to do heat treat, so I stayed out of the shop last weekend when my back went out, but if you would like to take on that slot, I can have the blade to you in a week or so. Let me know, and I will adjust what I was going to do to it.

There is also the Tailor slot if you want to take that on.

--Carl

Is the steel plate/air quenchable? If so I can do that with some security, but if it is oil quench that would be a first and I would be worried about damaging the steel.

Jim

Can't wait.!!! .................................................. Is it here yet????????................................When are you going to send it ???????????.....................Are you sending via mail or ups or fed-ex or DHL?????????........
......did you send it on the first slow boat from China????????.........................It's not here yet...............Can't wait !!!!!

Jim, this is a piece of Del's damascus, I believe it is oil quench.

--Carl

I would be willing to give the HT a try. I'm know for a fact that I can take a pic to save my life and my sheaths while usable aren't pretty.

I'm game if you are. I will do a lot of study, promise.

Jim

Scott,

I sent you a private message. I need your address to ship it.

OK Jim, I will be a little bit and get this sent to you. It really should be pretty easy to HT.

--Carl

Scott,

I sent it out this morning (insured USPS).

I admit to feeling rather... well... wierd about shipping a rough and incomplete knife. ...not sure how to proccess this feeling...

Anyway, as I stated before, it is not finished to a degree that I would have done for my own HT, but I thought I'd give you some wiggle room. Additionaly, I didn't tapper the tang or the point. Again, I did not want to contribute to any warpage of Del's damascus, which I have no experience with.

If you do decide to do some tappering pre HT then just remember that it is designed with a skull crusher in mind (to show off the damascus) and you wouldn't want to get to thin in the back.

Furthermore, You have to get creative with the HT to avoid hardening the tang--clay perhaps. Jim still has to drill that area for balance and pinning. If you feel like it would serve the finished product better, you may want to touch base with him to see what he has in mind for a handle and pinning. Perhaps you could get some drilling done preHT..., I don't know..., it's up to you guys.

These pass around knives present some unique challenges. I feel like I had the easy part (at least on this one).

I Can't Wait. Sounds to me like you've already taken a liken to this knife. I try to do it justice.

Ok guys here's a silly question, do we put our names on it or is there going to be a collaboration maker's mark? It might be difficult to get all the person's names on one blade without making it look nasty.

Jim

I did not mark the blade but I mark very few of mine.

I'm open to suggestions here.

Perhaps I can make a custom mark for these knives on my stencil maker...

Andy,
The blade is at the Post Office. I have to go pick it up.

Well... can you work with what I sent you Scott?

If you guys need any help on the HT feel free to contact me.
Del

Andy,

I've been busy doing family projects and just yesterday got back down to the shop. I hope that I can do justice to the piece. Also Delbert, I was planning to hold blade at 1450 for 15 minutes and quench in peanut oil. Will this be o.k.?Do ya'll think I need to have a Rockwell test run on this blade for record?

Andy, you sent a sketch with the blank, do you always make detailed sketches like this? I usually just sketch something close and see what turns out. Your drawing makes me feel inferior.

J. Scott,
The peanut oil is fine, but take it up to 1500 before quenching. I usually temper at 400.
Del

Drac,
Do you want me to drill pin holes in the blade? The blade needs to be lightened up a bit. I can leave a space for you to drill your own holes or I can pre-drill for you. If you want me to fax you a picture of the knife Andy envisions I can do that too. I also need your ship to address to get this to you. Just E-mail me or pm me with it.

The holes would depend on if the tang is hardened or not and if it is a hidden tang or full tang. Can you scan the pic & email? I can get a fax but I have to coordinate it due to the fax is not plugged in at home, it's also the printer:D

I'm out of carbide bits for hardened tangs so if it will be hardened tang I'll need to call in the favor.

Jim

Jim, that's a full tang design. I'm not sure how Scott is planning to harden it, but I can tell you that much.

Here's the pre-heat treat blade. I should be doing the deed tonight or Friday at the latest.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7803/kith2iy3.png

I was going to do some file work on the spine but I still new to the "art" ( or destruction in my cases) of file work and the trailing point had me stumped on how to do it and still flow with the design. Derek, do you need me to etch the blade? I have a tank of ferric acid in my shop if so.

Jim

I have hardened your blade already and will put final finish on it this weekend. I took liberties with pin holes. The blade needed to have that swiss cheese look anyway. ( balance) I put small holes 3/32" around the edge and two large holes 1/4" on each end. You have the option of using either, both, or none. Anyway next week I'll be sending it on.

Well, with Del guidance, it made it through heat treat. I have to do some clean up sanding but it should be ready to ship this weekend. I manage to keep the tang soft enough for drilling.

Derek, go ahead & PM me your address & if you want it etched or not before shipping.

Jim

I got the knife from J. Scott or I should say my wife got it at work.

I have the other almost finished. I did the finish sanding a quick etch but have to go back for some more sanding as I don't think I cleaned it up deep enough. Parts of the surface seem to have a crystal like surface. I think that it was the decarb Del mentioned.

I think it should be ready for the mail by Monday. Derek may be on vacation as I haven't received his address yet.

Jim

Sounds like you guys are coming right along.Hey Joe hows our blade coming?Sorry I really get impatient when I get excited.

Sounds like you guys are coming right along.Hey Joe hows our blade coming?Sorry I really get impatient when I get excited.
Sorry for vanishing for a bit. I have one that is rough ground. It is my intepreation of a rather well known (at least in kife knut circles) type of combat knife, BUT it is of a type that is very easy to mess up, so i will be forging out another more conventional one on the next few days just in case. After i get both ground out, I will talk with you about whihc one you want to do, because the difficult one would present as many challenges to you in making the handle as it does to me making the blade. Even it if turns out well, we may both decide that discretion is the better part of valor and take the easier route:)

That would be great.

I have Joe's work at home. He & Andy did a great job! Very smooth lines. I'll start on the handle soon.

Andy will be taking over the Doc of the one from Carl & me. I should be sending it out within the next week.

Jim

Look forward to getting it Jim.

I had a thought fellas. Tell me what you think.

The National WWII museum is in New Orleans. I'm not sure what damage they may or may not have suffered, but I'm sure they could use some funds.

I thought that we could allocate the funds from one or more of these knives to them and have "Custom Knifemakers of the World" (or something to that effect) placed on their Wall of Honor where generous benefactors are listed.

In any case, we need to make some decisions in this area over the next few months.

I would say that would work.Should we just donate the knives and have them run the auction?They may draw a widder range of bidders.

That works for me. Here is the address & contact #:

NATIONAL D-DAY MUSEUM
945 MAGAZINE STREET
NEW ORLEANS LA 70130

PH: 504-527-6012

I'm sorry I didn't write down the curator's name:o He was a pretty nice guy when I talked to him a couple years ago.

Jim

I'll get in touch with them and see what they would prefer.

I'd like a few others to chime in with a thumbs up before we commit at least one knife to this recipient.

I am good with that one Andy.

--Carl

There is also the D-Day memorial in Bedford Va.

That one would be:

NATIONAL D-DAY MEMORIAL FOUNDATION
PO BOX 77
BEDFORD VA 24523

540-586-DDAY
EMAIL:dday.org

Soryy I don't remember much about when I talked with them. It was more than a few years ago...

I have a list of a lot of historical sites & museum ships around the country that could all use the funding for future ones but I will cast my vote toward the D-Day in New Orleans for this one.

Jim

Agree
By the way Jim you blade is in the mail.

Yea, speaking of museum ships, I was just down in Mobile last week as and visited the USS Alabama and the Veteran's Memorial Park there. They did suffer a great deal of hurricane damage.

Their SR-71 and many other planes in the aircraft pavillion were tossed around like toys. The ship and sub have re-opened, but a large section of the exhibits is still closede down after all this time.

More food for thought.

There are more worthy causes than there are us unfortunately.

This weekend one of my shipmates started selling challenge coins that are being used to collect money for a USS Oklahoma Memorial in Hawaii. It was raised unlike the USS Arizona or the USS Utah (the Forgotten Battleship). It was sold for scrap and sank being towed back to the main land. Over 400 men died on it & they would like to see that they are remembered. I'm going to do a knife or two out side of this project for them but we will never be able to keep up.

It's a shame so few have to carry the load for so many that have no idea what they would lose if this heroes were forgotten. Every time I do Color Guard I always have at least one Veteran come up & thank me. I always make sure how much I owe them. If they hadn't come first I wouldn't be able to do what I do.

Jim

Andy,

Mine is on the way via priority this past Sat. so you should have it soon.

Jim

Jim,

I got the knife today. Looks great guys!

Now, I've never done a stick-tang before. This should be fun. I may go with a mortised deal--just not sure yet.

I think I'll shorten the tang--It's pretty long. I try to keep handles in the 5 1/2" range on full size knives (give or take).

The tape you had protecting the blade pulled off some of the black created in the etch. The result is a hard to see pattern. may have to re-etch and wax unless this is the look you were going for Jim. Let me know.

I can't wait to get started!

I know what you mean.

Both knives have something new for me. I've never done that sort of shoulders that the blade you have. You seen my shoulders (since you have a couple of mine :D ) they are much more of a 90 degree.

On the one you started I've never done that sort of handle sculpting!!

On the etch, that wasn't the finish I was thinking would be the final one. That is an etch to see what it would look like & to make sure I got everything right. I sanded with some 400 after to clean it up. I wasn't sure how far you guys wanted to take the etch. From what I understand the courser the grit the darker the etch.

Jim

Drac,

The blade I sent to you was almost reground on the hollow grind portion leaving only the back showing the etch. I thought that might look good but was afraid to screw up such a nice piece of metal.

Andy,

I left the tang long to give you the flexibility to do what you wanted. I figured it would be a whole lot easier to remove some down the line, rather than wish there was a 1/4" more.

Have fun,
--Carl

Andy, I left the tang soft so you could work with it easier. I think only about 1/2" is hard, the holes in the tang for etching were drilled after HT. I hope the shoulders of the tang are wide enough for you to have an easy time fitting the guard on.

Jason, it looks great. I looking forward to starting on the handle this weekend I hope....

Jim

Jim, Since this is new ground for you where the shoulders are concerned, let me give you a tip or two to make it easier. PM on the way.

PLEASE!!!!!!

I like that style on larger knives & it is almost a requirement on bowies.

Jim

Andy, copy me on that, I always like tips that will help make things easier!

--Carl

Ok guys,

I've been sketching some concepts for the knife Carl and Jim prepared for me to handle (and sheath I think).

I'm stuck between a fighter with a single finger groove and lower guard giving it a traditional look and a smooth back-bone... (I think this one looks the most elegant.)

...and a more militaresque trench-fighter with either an etched or blued D-guard in hardened 1/8" 1080, four finger grooves and some kind of matching butt cap. I think these colors would go freat with Del's damascus.

Both are new territory for me, and both can be made to look awesome with the blade Carl and Jim prepared. I guess I want to know what everyone thinks, especially Carl and Jim.

Either way, I think I'm going with the dark oak from the USS Constitution that Jim graciously provided.

For the trench idea, I was thinking something like these... but prettier, of course!

http://home.scarlet.be/het.vaandel/mes0042.JPG
http://www.collectorsmilitaria.com/img/daggers/tenchwhole.jpg

I think the D guard should be made of brass. But the single finger groove sounds best to me.

Scott

Wow Andy, that is a tough choice, glad it is yours :lol

I think you could pull both of them off, and make them look good. So I would have to chime in to pick the one you most want to try and go with it! :yield:

--Carl

I thought of brass, but wanted to accent the damascus a little better. More than two primary colors on a knife gets a bit busy. I'll do some more drawings though--give it another look.

I am leaning heavily toward the trench fighter set-up.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Carl. I hope I do it justice.

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I just wanted to think about it.

I'm more for the fighter but not so much as to say don't do the trench. If your leaning toward the trench go for it!!!!

Jim

A little update on status.

I have the wood picked out & have glued on some copper spacers. Right now I'm waiting on some disks from Pop’s; I do a lot of my work on a disk sander. I have some mosaic pins I got in the other day. I'm hoping that I'll get the disks in soon it should only be a week after that.

Jim

My indecision is a plague!

I am intrigued by the trench idea, but as my first stick-tang, I'm thinging that I need to start a bit simpler and go with the single guard, smooth backed fighter.

In the mean time, I'm not getting anything done!

The heat has been slowing me down quite a bit. I have the spacers & handle glued together & that's as far as I've got.

Jim

Hey Joe How we coming on that blade?You are killing me I know it will be worth the waite but,I don't wait well.I get like a kid before Christmas.

Yea, we need an all 'round status check. The time has come to ship to the next maker (the Tailor) for sheath work to begin. I am still not finished with the handle on the one in my care. Gotta get busy!

Status: Busy but still around. Check in daily, even if I am not posting prolifically at the moment!

I am ready to receive the one for tailor. I think I have everything needed, but am ready to get other supplies if the knife dictates!

--Carl

If I don't hear from Joe in a week or so I'll do the knife and get it out to you(Andrew ) by mid to end oct. I hope he's OK sometimes things come up,with-out warning.

I'm still here. I have the handles shaped and now the temp is getting down a little cooler (in the 80's next week) I should be to far from finishing.

Jim

O.K. gentlemen where are we with the KITH. Report in !!!

Still around!

I'm still here.Haven't received a blade yet.

It seems we are a few weeks behind or more. Though these things seldom make an original deadline, we still have until Nov. 1st to get 'em done.

The original list with modifications:

Knife #1 (full tang / Ealy damascus)
Driver: Andy Garrett (this design will not require a guard)
Chef: J. Scott
Doctor: Jim Drouillard
Tailor: Carl Price

Knife #2 (forged carbon)
Driver: Joe (jdm61) Indicates he is willing to HT if the chef would tackle a guard
Chef: HT done by Joe / blade finish done by Andy S.
Doctor: Andy Sharpe
Tailor: Andy Garrett

Knife#3 (forged Ealy damascus)
Driver: Carl Price
Chef: (Jim Drouillard did this step)
Doctor: Derek Parker (Andy Garrett due to no contact with Derek)
Tailor: (looks like this will be Andy Garrett too since no one volunteered)

If knife #1 is on time, then Carl is making a sheath for it now. We need to know where this knife is and what stage of completion it's at.

Knife #2 is not on time or I would have it for the sheath work. As it is, Andy S. says he has never received a knife. I fear this one may be a wash. Talk to us Joe!

Knife #3 is in my posession now. I have all the materials and since I'm doing the last two steps, I am technically on schedule, but I need to get to work to be done by Nov 1st.

Knives #1 and #3 are of paramount importance to complete due to Debert's generous donation of valuable steel. If #2 never materializes, that's unfortunate, but it won't be a disater.

Let's get a grip on where we stand guys. Post here to get us up to speed.

Andy S., I sent you a PM.

I haven't seen #1 yet. I am ready to sheath it as soon as it shows up.

--Carl

Andrew,Lets get-er-done.

:o :banplease

I still have #1. It has just been to hot here to work in the garage. It's dropping into the high 70's low 80's this week so I WILL GET TO IT!!

Jim

Jim,

I know what you mean. It is finally getting to a temp that my shop doesn't feel like I can heat treat in it (woke up to actual rain this morning)!

Let me know, should be able to sheath it pretty quickly.

--Carl

I have possesion of #3 due to time log I'm going to help Andrew get threw his overload.He ended up with alot of work on this project and will still be doing the sheath on #3.
Update:Guard is made and fitted.Handle design is done.I am waiting on a piece of material that should be arriveing this week and hopefully I will have it well on its way by the week-end.
It took me a while to come up with the proper guard and handle design.Usually when I start a knife I have already made it 50 times in my head.This was totaly different.Enjoyable but different.

Jim, any word? I am about to head into the hills for an elk hunt and will be out of touch for a bit.

--Carl

Just to kind of keep everyone updated here's what I did this week-end.Guard and handle are in place just have to finish up the pommel and she'll be on her way.Here are some pics so you won't think I'm goofing off.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9043/dsc04710wv4.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04710wv4.jpg)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1276/dsc04709sa3.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04709sa3.jpg)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8863/dsc04708qd9.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04708qd9.jpg)
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5013/dsc04707ua8.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04707ua8.jpg)
The Guard is copper.The spacer is (Ibeleive)Teak from the the USS.Constitution.Then a copper spacer and a stag handle.The pommel will also be made of copper.Any input will be welcome.:D :banghead :D

Andy, you nailed it! The angle on that spacer is so paerfect! It mimmicks the angle of chevrons on a uniform. Intentional?

That stag is so even and well arched! I'm not a big stag guy, but this stuff is awesome! I'm glad you used some of that Constitution wood too. It gives the whole project instant validity.

Well done my friend! I can't wait to sheath it!

Where are we on the others? Has anyone heard from JScott, who has the one I started? It seems there are some people who are very MIA on this. Time to fire off some emails I guess.

That looks great!

I have a question, on the angled spacer and the separate handle materials. If I was to do that on a full tang knife, how wold I drill it for the pins I would use to keep it all together?
Drilling on an angle, even the slightest, seems almost impossible.

Thanks in advance. Great looking project.

I assemble the handle(cut fit stack)then epoxy it all together drill a 1/8 hole down the center.I do thes by locking the base(pommel end in a drill vise)The handle will be at an angle but the end next to the guard will be level hold it in position by hand and with a carbide drill drill a center hole. I then insert a pin usually a nail to hold everything together.On this one I drilled 2 holes 1/8" to the left and right of the center hole then inserted epoxy coated SS pins 3" long to secure my parts.After that you pretty much have a solid piece to deal with.Shape your handle,remove the center pin cut out for the tang and assemble the blade, guard and handle.Also on thisone there will be a copper pin inserted threw the stag and the tang.I hope this helps.

Thanks for the comments guys.Andrew waite till you see that teak wood.it looks loke a spider web..and almost translucent in spots.
By the way Andrew I was just joking with my comment on your rambling.I actually enjoy it.

That makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

Andy, that is looking great. Which of the three is it? Looks alot like the blade of #3, but I thought you had #2 to finish. Just curious.

Andy G, I am here and waiting!

--Carl

That is #3.Andrew got overloaded.#2 never materialized.It'll go back to Andrew for the sheath.Glad you like it.

Hey Carl,I just realized you were the driver on this blade.I do so hope it meets your expectations.I'm going to let Andrew do the final sharpening after he makes the sheath( My sharpening skills are a little unpredictable).I think I need new glasses.

Andy, that is why I asked, it looked like the blade, but :eek: .

You did a great job and really made the blade sing!

--Carl

Where the hell is #1?

Thank's Carl,I'm glade you approve.I still have the pommel left to do I just wanted to keep everyone updated.I have to go out of town for the holiday,and should have a finished product by next week-end(Sun.)On a different note This KITH got me to thinking,I recently lost my Uncle Herb who was a WWII vet.I am thinking of making a knife and holding an auction that the proceeds will be given to the WWII vets memorial fund in his name.He served in the S.Pacific,I'm thinking of maybe a V44 with Ivory handles and silver guard (silver,not NS)Forged 1095 with a nice clay quinched hamon.Then having the handles scrimshawed with WWII pics.Any ideas on blade design or general knife style will be greatly appreciated.This is just in the thought stage so I am totally open to all ideas

Andrew, And you thought you could ramble

Dude..., you got nothin' on me.

Andy S. ; FANTASTIC!

I wish I'd kept up with this project, I would have offered to step in, if needed, to pick up any slack...

G.

I believe Jim (Drac) has #1.

--Carl

That is the last I saw of it. I sent it to him on time +_ 2 days.

Jim hasn't posted in a month! That's not like him. He's a TKN junkie like me (and a few others reading this that I won't name).

Does anyone have a # to call him? I just want to be sure everythings ok.

In the mean time, I'll send an email.

Hi guys,

I got the email & I though I'd offer my apology/explanation to all involved.

Some of you know I've moved to be closer to my wife's & mine work. We both worked about a mile apart & the rush hour traffic with 100+ miles a day were killing us (and our fuel budget). Well the housing market tanked about a month later and we have been making two mortgage payments since. On top of that we've had to do repair/upgrades to the other house trying to attract people plus the lawn maintenance to keep the HOA off our butts.

We've also had trouble with the new house all the way from leaking washers to a HVAC repair. The HVAC was the worse as the first company sent 5 different techs out over 6 visits to replace the squirrel cage, control board & the relay. That fiasco ran use over a grand and while they had they AC part working they wired the heating wrong & it popped the fuse every time we switched it over to heat. On their last visit they accused us of popping the fuse on purpose because their work COULD NEVER caused that. They were even so gracious as to not charge us for the trip to replace a fuse ($150 trip charge) to make up for all the issues they put us through on the earlier trips. In Texas as long as the company makes an effort to make good the problems the Better Business Bureau won't take a complaint. On top of that they never looked for what was causing the problem of the fuse blowing. They were even so willing to replace the very "inefficient" unit for a new one that would cut our bill in half.

We got another company out and he found the problem in the wiring, moved thermostat (it was behind my wife's desk) and let us know that we didn't have an inefficient system. We had a heat pump that the original owners didn't have a heat pump thermostat put on it when replacing the system from a fire. Once it has the right one we will see more than a 50% drop in our heating bills.

And he did all this for his trip charge of $65.

On top of all this two months after we moved into the new house my job moved me from 1 mile from work to 23 miles through down town Dallas rush hour traffic.

It not as bad as what some of the guys have been going through around here but these and other issues have really thrown our lives into a strained loop. The good news is that I have been able to get back into the shop last night and I have the handle glued up & should have it finished by the weekend. I wasn't able to be as fancy as I might have hoped but it should turn out to be a usable knife, maybe a bet more.

I'm sorry I've let my problems hold you guys up. I make sure it gets done as quickly as I can.

Jim

So,Jim, What ya been doing?:lol :lol :banplease .Hope things get easyer for you.It took me a year to get settled and get most of the bugs out of our house.I told my wife I don't care if we win the lottery I'll not move again.

Jim, glad to see you're back in action. Moving is definitely a pain in the butt!

Man Jim, that is a lot of pain in a short amount of time. I have moved twice that I carried both payments, but was lucky and both houses sold quickly, very hard place to be in (last time actually took me from within 1/4mile of work to 30miles from work, just to get out of HOA and back into the country!).

Let me know when you are ready, I'll be around!

--Carl

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that excuse! :lol

No sweat brother. Most of us were late somewhere along the way (as we all should know is typical of KITHs and group projects). I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something tragic!

Take the time you need and enjoy it. Life happens!

BTW, I've been using that test knife you sent me rather heavily for several months now. I'm about to enter the damaging/destruction phase of the effort and I wanted to give the option of re-assigning it's ownership before it's too late.

It's done very well as a user and holds an edge like nobody's business! However, if we are to discover the limits... :rip:

A full report will follow the completion of testing. I leave it up to you.

That reminds me Jim, I need to send you a review on one I used while elk hunting this year.

Agreed, take your time and do it right!

--Carl

Well, even taking it slow I did finish it last night:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7060&stc=1&d=1196430815

This was a first for me on the handle. I've never done the sculpting that Andy laid out on it. Most of my handles are very simplistic.

I finished it with live oak scales and copper spacers from a "special" stash of mine. The pins are hidden bolts for extra strength. You can't see it but I did all the finish work on the sides of the blade & scales before mounting so as to keep the damascus pattern on the sides. The finish is simple & straight forward, sanded to 400 grit and buffed with white rough. This wood is hard and old enough that it is VERY stable.

Thxs for the patience,
Jim

Awsome job Jim! Mine should be finished and on its way to Andrew on monday.

Wow, that's nice Drac!

Sweet work Jim! The simplicity of the handle is it's strength! The lines of the knife all flow together nicely (not easy to do when three people worked on it).

Kudos my brother!

That is a work of art, great job guys!

OK! Finally finished.Here it is ,Andrew send me your address so I can get this out to you.
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/258/dsc04714co6.th.jpg (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04714co6.jpg)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/669/dsc04713bc1.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04713bc1.jpg)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9493/dsc04712km8.th.jpg (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04712km8.jpg)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9199/dsc04711mu3.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc04711mu3.jpg)
Lets hear it,what-ya think

That turned out nice Andy! Might have to try something like that on one I am playing with now.

--Carl

That was my first at angleing the spacer

Carl,

Can you PM me your address & I will get it out hopefully by this weekend.

Jim

On it's way Jim!

Mailed out Sat.

Jim

I will be looking for it.

Will try and get her dressed up nicely!

--Carl

Well Jim, that was fast. Showed up today.

Guys, this is a great knife, the pic that Jim posted does not do justice to this knife. I am going to have to work hard to make a sheath to do this justice, but I will try!

Going to go to Tandy tomorrow, I think the leather I have is either to thick or to thin, so going to pick up some new stuff.

Now for some peanut gallery input time! Should this one go in a pouch sheath or in a more traditional 2 piece with a snap clasp?

--Carl

I'd say:2 piece with a clasp

Carl, Pouch sheath is my vote.

Andy, You ship that beauty to me yet?

Carl,

I'm glad you got it. I hate the mail!!

I know you'll do more than a good job either way, but I second the pouch. I think though it might need a clip for a harness though...

Jim

P.S. - On the destruction testing Andy, go for it! Safe first!

Andy,its on its way wife mailed it today.you should have by the week-end.

Andy, I got it today. WOW! I am humbled! You did an awesome job--far better than the pics!

I plan to get to work in earnest next week. Christmas may get in the way, but fortunately, I can make sheaths at work... what a cool job!

P.S. I don't know what to do about the tip--I'm too scared to try and straighten it.

Thanks Andrew,I left the pommell flat because I thought it might be a good place to put all the makers names?

I tried to straighten it some it's actually a little better but at one point I was scared it would break.I would say go for it and if the tip breaks reshape it. I think Carl made the blade maybe he would be the man to fix it.

That wood really gave a great pattern.The spider web doesn't show well in the pics.

OK, now I'm interested! What's up with the tip?

I've got leather and some new stamps, so I should have the other one sheathed before the new year (I hope at least).

When I was at Tandy Leather they had a set of stamps of the military branches on clearance. Don't know if I will use them, but 6 stamps (Marine Corps, Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, National Guard), usually $59.99 marked down to $6.99 I had to buy them. Anyway, can't think exactly how to use them in this application, figure an army guy would not like to get a sheath with the Marine Corps emblem on it!

--Carl

The blade had a pretty good left hand bend starting about 1"from the tip.I got it straightened some but was affraid to go to far.(scared to death I was going to break it.)With my limited forgeing skills it was to nice a blade for me to go at.I figured you or Andrew would be better canidates at this task.

On the stamps,Is that special at all the stores or just like a clearance at your location.That is too good to pass up.

OK, I guess I would have to see it to know if it could be taken out normally, or if it would have to be re-heat treated or re-profiled to get it out. I guess the ball is in your court Andy.

The stamps, just saw them at the front counter when I was in getting leather. Had to buy a set. They do not have it on the website, so it might be trying to get rid of what they have. I will see about taking a pic and posting it this weekend. I picked up a set that was bigger a while back, had 5 Emblems and a flag, but this was to good to pass up.

My mom was just here, and I showed her the knife. She loved it, moreover, she loved what we're doing with this project. She looked it over really good with a layman's eye and did not notice the slight bend in the tip.

I did notice it was better than when I sent it to you Andy. It looks like you may have straightened it just enough. However, I'm not sure 'just enough' is going to be just enough for this calibre of project, ehh?

I'd like to make the sheath, place the maker's names on it (scares me to death) and send it back to Carl for his expert opinion on the tip. He forged this beauty, so he, more than anyone, will know if it can be and should be fixed, and having worked the steel, he'd have the best chance of success.

After that, Carl, you could keep it safe until we find a good fund raising event for vets that we can donate it to.

What do you guys think?

Another thought: I'm going to do my best photography work on this one, but I'm no photographer. I have a light tent and a decent camera, but owning a airplane wouldn't make me a pilot either. You guys have seen my pics, are they good enough for sending to prospective veteran's organizations for their promotional use, or should we suck up to the pros?

Andy, didn't you see Myth Busters the other day about landing a plane?

I would be willing to throw $20 at the knife for a pro shot. If each person did we would be able to get them done. Trouble is that some have done more than one knife, just different parts so that could add up to $60 for the unlucky person.

Coop & Terrill have always helped out but I wouldn't want to take advantage of their generosity. Your shots are much better than mine and I think would do the job of showing what people will be bidding on.

Jim

Go for it Andy.I tried my best to straighten it I didn't want to bend it back to far.I bent it pretty good a couple of times then fear took over.I'm basicly a coward.My wife looked at it and didn't notice it till I pointed it out.My thought is if it breaks "WE START OVER".Then again Carl may look at it and say "no problem I can fix that".

I will take a look at it and see what I can do. Would hate to loose it though.

Was playing around with the stamps I got, here is a pic of the scrap leather.

http://www.firebirdforge.com/misc/stamps_sm.jpg

Large pic can be seen link (http://www.firebirdforge.com/misc/stamps_large.jpg)

Did some with the leather to wet, so they don't show as well. Anyway, the 6 in the set I just picked up are along the top, the bigger ones are spread out, and it didn't have the Coast Guard but rather a FD stamp.

I like to not only play with the scrap like this to see what a stamp looks like, but to get a feel for how it works and what I can do with it. Anyway, a lot of play on this one.

--Carl

Update time. Sheath is coming along fine, taking a little longer, but I am taking my time with it to be sure I do the steps right. Thought I would update for those following along.

Well, I've never made a sheath like this before, but I had my Chuck Burrows video to help. I will confess that I deviated from the recomended procedured more than once, but I'm happy with the result.

I kept the design simple to keep it from drawing attention away from the beautiful knife the guys made. To that end, I used a black snap, and limited tooling to a hand-carved 'V' in an effort to honor all veterans who risked or gave all in the pursuit of victory. The dye is russet brown.

I hope you like it. The pics are just preliminary. I still have to sharpen it and etch the names on the butt-cap (which scares the crap out of me).

http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet6.JPG
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet5.JPG
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet4.JPG
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet3.JPG
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet2.JPG
http://www.garrettknives.com/images/vet1.JPG

WHOW!!!! Nice job Andrew.

Sweet!!

Jim

Sweet, now I have to get mine finished and posted :)

OK, I didn't fall off the face of the earth, but I did burn the crap out of my right hand (never grab a hawk drift after many attempts to drift red hot steel!). The one finger went really deep with the burn, right where thread would cross as I stitched.

Anyway, got to a point were I could stitch last weekend, and got things stitched up. I need to stain, and fit this weekend. Will post pics after that.

--Carl

Cool Carl. I was just thinking on this project last night and had an idea.

I'm planning on exhibiting at the KGA (Knife Group Association of Oklahoma) show in OKC this September. It'll be my first show if I can get enough done to do it.

I met Mike Miller, the president of that organization, here in Wichita a few months back--great guy! I thought I might ask him if we could auction or raffle the collaboration knife in my possession at that show--If you gents are in agreement, of course.

We only need to decide on where to send the proceeds if you agree. I think a multi-service organization like the WWII museum in New Orleans would be good, but that is just one of MANY possible, so give me your thoughts.

I'd say go for it.

I'm good with it. We need to decide how to raffle/auction the one in my possession too. I am hoping to have pics this weekend up. Dye/finish the sheath and then sharpen.

--Carl

Is this KITH going to be complete only one year from it's original auction date? Veteran's Day is coming again in November. What is the latest report.

This is not a KITH, but a collaboration.

I'll be raffling the knife in my possession at the show in OKC. It's a small show and may not bring a lot of money, but in the absence of a better plan, that's what those who responded agreed to.

I'll ask an uninvolved party to do the draw at the show with many witnesses.

Whatever it brings, will go to the WWII museum before Veteran's Day.

I will not buy ticket myself, because if I were to win, it would raise eyebrows.

If any one here wishes to buy a chance, I'll work out some details and ticket prices (suggestions welcome) and post them here in a week or so.

I need to sharpen the knife and get pictures of the one I have. Otherwise, I think it is ready to go. Will look at the sheath again this weekend with a critical eye, sometime this helps after not looking at it for a while. I do need to put pics up though.

Anyone have any good ideas on this one and how to sell it?

--Carl

Jim is going to be at the Spirit of Steel show in Texas in September. Maybe he could do a similar raffle if the one in OKC goes alright.

Sorry guys,

I'll only be there at night since it's a military weekend. You might contact Johnny Stout of the Texas Knifemakers and Collector Assoc. He is always there and is a great guy for helping.

Jim

OK guys, things have conspired against me to get this up. Had a laptop go out on me ($4 dc-dc converter, couldn't find the part number so I could replace it :) ). Then I got sick. Anyway, this has been a bad summer to get to the knife shop all around (Did keep my job through the layoffs though :) )

Anyway, here are some pics.

http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_1sm.jpg (http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_1.jpg)

http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_2sm.jpg (http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_2.jpg)

http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_3sm.jpg (http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_3.jpg)

http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_4sm.jpg (http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_4.jpg)

needs sharpening, but otherwise is a magnificent knife, ready to go.

--Carl

http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_1sm.jpg (http://www.firebirdforge.com/vet/Vetran_Collab_1.jpg)

but otherwise is a magnificent knife

--Carl

magnificent is right! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon: :101

When you get ready to raffle that off, I want a ticket!! (seriously.)

G.

That is now the question, setting up the Raffle, and which organization to send the proceeds to. Also, who can run the raffle (I want a ticket on this one too)!

Discussions? Ideas?

--Carl

Well, the knife looks great carl--nice work on those sheaths!

However, I'd hold off on the raffle until we see how the one I'm liquidating this weekend goes. My post here offering chances on it has resulted in ZERO responses in the few days it's been posted. Maybe it's the economy but $10 didn't seem like too much to me--I must have done something wrong.

I hope the show does better. My greatest fear is selling seven or eight chances and sending a check to the recipient for $70-$80. It's a great knife, but no one seems interested.

I was going to grab one, but the timing didn't allow it. I don't do business with paypal (one really bad experience with a seller, paypal didn't care), and didn't have time to get a check to you.

But yeah, is hard right now. My company just did some major restructuring, some worried individuals until it was all over.

--Carl

I know the people involved can't buy tickets( I'd take one)
Have you posted links in the other forums. Alot of people only read a few forums.
I seldom stray from 3 that I regularly read.

Andy, I don't see why you can't. I would say the only limit would be the one person drawing shouldn't buy a ticket for that drawing. Everyone else should be free to buy all they want (ie more money to the cause). My name would have been in if I would have had time to get the check to Andy.

Even with that, if Andy G. got someone else to pull the winner from a hat, I would be comfortable with his name in that hat.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

--Carl

I got a call from a local engraver who was going to put the artists names on the end of the handle. After one letter, I got a call saying that it couldn't be done. I guess I'll buff it out and re-polish--it'll be sold unmarked.

At this point, anyone who wants a chance can buy one. If you tell me a check's on the way, that's good enough for me. I will refrain as I'm handling the drawing. I will try to photograph the drawing for posting here.