Hi Gentlemen. I went through Mr. Cowles tutorial on dovetail bolsters, and still have a question. I'm getting ready to do my first knive, and I just want to make sure that I have the pin concept down. Does peening the pins into place, expand the pin in the hole to hold it in place? Is there any other epoxy or anything that holds the bolster in place. I have watched Geno's video three times now and I like the screws that he uses in the video, but I like the cleaner look of pinning. Your help is much appreciated.

To encourage participation I'll get things going with my way, which I'm sure is a pretty common way. I keep my holes as close as possible to the size of the pining material. Use numbered drill bit sizes if necessary. Oversized holes will allow the bolsters to move and also very visible spots since it will be unlikely the pining material will fill the hole completely.When sizing the pin to be used cut the ends flat. A snip plier thing will not work. Also I believe a good length size to use is two diameters of pin stock plus the thickness of the three pieces to be pined. Sure a little bit more will probably work, but much more and you will again create problems of pin folding over,and unfilled holes. When you start hitting on the pins make sure you have a solid no bounce type base. The proceedure I use Is to start on one pin tun it over and hit some on the other side, start on the other pin, turn the pieces over hit on the other side. Now of course go back and forth on all four pin heads trying to take the pins down evenly. Oh yes , I wouldn't want you to not get this tip and that is use the flat of a hammer. Do not use the ball part of a ball peen. It will round off the pins on the outside, but will not compress the pins within the materials being pined. And yes a resonable sized hammer is another good thing to use. I hope this helps you. It does work very well for me. Frank Niro

Thanks for your help Frank. I'm trying to gather as much info as I can, BEFORE I start. I'll try to let you know how the first one goes.

Hello !

I have make my first bolster (brass) but the pin joint is visible (just à little, but visible)

Do I have to countersink the hole before pinning or just drill a hole ?

Thanks !

Gary, no adhesive is needed. The pins do expand to form an interference fit with the bored holes in the bolster material, creating a solid mechanical lock.

Some makers will use a tapered reamer on the hole for additional insurance, although I have not found it necessary on the size pins that I use.

One trick that I developed was to drill a couple of shallow, blind holes in a steel block that I can rest on my anvil. The holes allow me to put one end of the pin (with the pin in place through the bolsters and knife tang) in a hole to support it while I begin hammering on the other end. I'll post a sketch of this here this evening. Without this, the process that Frank describes above can be quite difficult. One end of the pin wants to be flush with the bolster, while the other end is now too long and wants to fold over.

The other trick I use is, after I have peened the pins so they have nicely filled the holes in the bolster, I get a bigger hammer, and hit them some more.

Once you are at this point, I strongly recommend that you do some rough finishing on the bolsters on the belt grinder *before* you attach any handle material. Grinding off the pin heads and shaping the bolsters will generate a good bit of heat - enough to weaken an epoxy glue joint, or damage some delicate handle materials.

Here's the sketch I promised- I think it's self-explanatory.
http://www.cowlesknives.com/forumpix/pinning.jpg

Thanks Don. I am very meticulous and believe in paying attention to detail. The small things will make a big difference on the finnished product. Your help is appreciated!

A tip I picked up in the past works very well at avoiding visible bolster pin seams: slightly crown the ends of the pins, above the level of the bolsters and with a matching hole on the underside anvil/plate.
This facilitates the mushrooming of the pins and fills the holes well.

One final thought, here:

Be sure everything is completely cleaned and polished [including the hammer face] BEFORE you do final assemble. Most of my early work had pins that showed just a little bit. The cleaning allows a closer fit- and then the pins just disappear.

Dave

I used to have trouble peening pins and still they'd show up. I tried every kind and weight of hammer and still the darn things showed a small ring around them. This was also with counter tapering the hole in the bolster. One day I decided to try some new idea and decided th just mash the pins in my milling vise. No tapering the hole, ust smash that darn thing hard! I did this in just a scrap hunk of 416 then sawed it in half to see how much or if the pin flared the hole at the outside part of the bolster, and sure enough it flared the hole as if I tapered the hole myself but it also swelled tho whole pin throughout the depth of the hole! I have'nt seen a pin since:) The vise compresses it so thouroughly and evenly there are no more gaps ever. I have never been able to accomplish that with a hammer.

So much for finess and precision fitting!

Mr Herman I am apalled.

My favourite method is to lightly round the ends with a tiny ball peen hammer then switch to a 3 pounder and finish the job with one stroke.

I,m happy with the pin press i built..One wrong hammer swing and oops,but it is more artistic.Also i found hammering could leave a hairline between the bolster and the blade.

I know I'm late here, but... One thing I have learned is that on my nickel, It would show a ring no matter how hard I hit or what method I tried. I'm not sure where I picked this up, but here goes. Nickel tarnishes, and the ring I'm SURE I was seeing most of the time was due to the tarnish layer. Now, I make my pins up a batch at a time. I clean several full pieces of pinstock with a scotchbrite pad down to perfectly clean nickel. I then cut to length and leave them in a jar full of acetone. The acetone prevents any oxidation before I get ready to use them. The sane thing can happen to bolsters if you leave them laying around on the bench, so ream them once more before pinning. Not sure if this is scientifically a basis for going to so much trouble, but it does work for me, so I guess I'm hooked. Later.

It has been awhile since I visited. Thank you all for the wealth of info. The new CKD is awsome!:cool:

Okay, here comes that dumb newbie again! I'm sorry guys!

I'm just now getting ready to pin my first bolsters, 1/4" copper bolsters on a 1/4" stainless full tang California Bowie handle.

And I've practiced twice now, on two sets of scraps, three pins each time. First time I used 1/8" copper, 1/8" brass and 3/16" copper. And it was pretty awful. But I did NOT have all the three pieces clamped tightly together, before I started pinning, and I think that must be key?

Second try, I used 1/8" copper, 1/8" brass and 1/8" German silver. Worked quite well the second time around.

One expert told me to taper the bolster holes toward the outside, and another - equally qualified expert - told me to counter sink them. And that seemed to work the best for me.

BUT I CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE ANY THICKNESS AT ALL ON MY BOLSTERS. I couldn't find 3/8" copper, and I REALLY NEED THE FULL 1/4", SO I DON'T HAVE ANY ROOM FOR GRINDING AFTER PINNING. I discovered I can make the pins totally disappear, if I grind off enough of the outside of the bolsters, but I can't do that - I need the full 1/4" bolsters!

So what about leaving the pins sticking out, and "spinning" the heads of the pins - after I've peened them very solidly?

Dumb me, I even bought a spinner - but I don't know how to use it! You must hate guys like me! On the other hand, I'm obviously never going to pose any competition for you!

Do some guys simply leave the extra pin sticking out of the bolster, put the "spinner" in an electric drill, and "spin" them to make them look a little better?

Is that what "spinning" is all about?

Thank you so very much for your patience and advice!

Gene

Gene, if it makes you feel any better, I'm reading these threads and have even less experience and hands-on than you. It's info I need to know, myself. I'm sure glad you're asking the Dumb questions. I don't have to! ;)

Coop

No, I'm sorry to tell you, Coupe, but that doesn't "make me feel any better" at all.

Thanks, I guess, anyway. . . !

Gene

I have had a lot of pin material in stock. Recently I purchased some nickle silver and peened the pins and had that blasted ring around them. I was discussing this with Terry and we both have noticed that the nickle silver sold today is different than that of years past. This brings to light to make sure your pins and gaurds are the same material.

Dan
www.theknifemaker.com

Thank you very much, Dan, for your help.

But no, the bolsters and guard are copper, but I want the pins to provide an interesting design contrast, so I'm going to use either brass or German silver for the pins.

Thank you!

Gene

Gene,

I my experience is that it is not as noticable when using different materials. Try it on some scrap first and see the results.

Dan
www.theknifemaker.com

Thank you, Dan, for your help.

But we are not communicating well.

You said use pins the of same material as the bolsters.

I said no, I'm using copper bolsters but brass or German silver pins, so they'll provide an aesthetic contrast.

But now you say no, if I use contrasting metals they won't contrast??

I don't want to waste any more of this valuable space from all the other guys, but, forgive me, I will use contrasting materials for the contrast.

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry we have somehow mis-communicated.

Gene

What I ment was that you wont notice if the pins are not perfect as to not having a ring around them as if you use the same material. Also, if you try using nickel-silver pins on a pc of scrap brass, you can see what I mean. I think the contrast is a good idea and have tried it with good results. Hope this is clear. I sometimes murder the kings english.

Dan
www.theknifemaker

I counter sink my holes then peen it works pretty good.