I need a regulator for making a gas forge. Anyone know what is needed for a forge with a blower? I already have all of the other components ready to go.

Bob,

Have you looked at www.webpak.net/~rreil/design.html (http://www.webpak.net/~rreil/design.html)
It has some information as to how to construct a gas forge without the use of a blower and it contains all of the info and links you'll need.

I'm curious as to why you chose to make a forge that runs off of a blower/gas mixture rather than a venturi design similar to what is shown in that link.
I'm getting ready to make one for myself but I'm not sure if I should use a blower or not. I know that the down sides to a blower are that it neccesetates electricity near the forge and it also makes a lot of whirring noise while it's running. However it is very very easy to setup and maintain.
We use forced air and propane to power our furnaces at work and they run up to around 3200* F. I've never seen a regulator and we run off of a 200 gal. tank but I know that there must be a regulator. I would recomend you call a propane supply company that is local to you and talk to them about what you're building and see if they have a recomendation. Otherwise just be sure to use a ball valve for the air and the propane so that you can adjust either one of them independently of each other. That's how we have ours setup and it isn't too hard to use. However, we only turn ours off every fifteen minutes or so, and then we need five minutes to load it again. I think that it might be more annoying to have to constantly light and relight it everytime you pull a piece out to hammer on it. If you left it on it might burn gas too quickly. I think the venturi style forges have the capacity to run at idle, or at a very low fuel setting so that you don't have to relight them. I don't know. If it's important that you find out what kind of pressure to run at shoot me an email at thrjej@yahoo.com and I'll find out how much pressure we use.

Reuben

I use a blower gas forge, I got a regulator from a farm and home supply for a weed burner torch. I added a guage, ball valve and needle valve. It can adjust all kinds of ways.

It seems to use very little gas when I set it right. I used it for forging for about 5 hours yesterday and it used only about 2-3 gallons of gas. It was on a 5 gallon tank, and even though it was about 40* outside it didn't freeze up or choke on me.

I haven't used a venturi forge much so I can't say which is better.

Moldy

G'day gents,
The forges that I make use a 2 burner venturi system and I use a variable gas regulator that goes up to 25psi. For normal forging I run it at about 60 kpa (I don't know what that is in psi) and when I'm welding I run it at 120kpa. Don't quote me but I think 280kpa is around 20psi. A 100lb bottle lasts me about 25 hours.

I found an adjustable propane regulator at Wal-Mart in the BBQ stuff.
A small squirel cage blower will work, but you'll need an air grate to control the flow.
The amount of gas needed will be governed by the hole size in your burner.
I haven't tried the venturi system either.

Bob,
I did some more digging and it turns out that we run our entire factory off of three one hundred gallen propane tanks. I don't know if they are run in series or parallel but apparently they are run this way with the pressure set close to 20 lbs. We run a lot of burners and three torches. We run this setup all through the winter and it never freezes up.
I made a Rob Reil blower this weekend just to see how it works and it's really cool! No blower and it puts out a massive flame!!! I really like it and it was vey cheap and easy to make. I didn't even flare the end as he instructed but I will so I can see how low I can run the torch. In the mean time I think I will end up building a venturi style propane forge with three or four of these burners in a 10 gal propane tank... I think it's about 24" long and 12" in diameter so when I'm done I hope to have about 18" of interior length and 7" diameter to play with. I really recomend you try to make one of these before you commit to building a forge with a blower. It took me abotu an hour to make and maybe fifteen minutes of playing to understand how it needs to be assembled but afterwards it is a burner that can be adjusted very very easily with a butterfly choke and has no parts that can break. On the other hand I have never seen one of our blowers break at work and we work in an incredibly hostile enviornment.

My two cents...

Reuben

Thanks Reuben for your investigation, it is appreciated.

Basically what I want is a forge that will get hot enough for welding but is also fuel efficient. I had heard that a forced air forge is more fuel efficient than a Venturi system. I also heard that forced air will get the forge hotter than Venturi systems will. Since I already have a blower, why not use it if it will fit the bill?

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

I finished my forge in May. I built it along the
plans (made some changes) I got from a friend. It was
designed by a guy named Don Ferdinand.
Wyvern Industries
229 Flounce Rock Dr.
Prospect OR. 97536

It is called the Draconis. It uses a two inch pipe
15" long for the tube, and 1/4" pipe run into the
side of that for the gas. It uses a Kao-wool lined
can for a firebox, and uses a kiln shelf and firebrick
wedge to split the blast and protect the work from
direct flame. I have an adjustable regulator on it
and only run about 5-7 psi with a .056 orifice in the
pipe cap.
I have a pyrometer, and it will hit 1900-2000 F in
less than ten minutes. I don't know but I think that
is good. I may make a smaller orifice cap.
What is cool is that the burner comes right out to
use in the metal melting furnace. i love it.
I have two 100# bottles, and have no idea how much
I have used.
I think I've heard the blower needs to be 60 cfm
minimum. I built an air gate and used a shop vac hose.
anyway thats what I know.
Rick

The forge part is easy for me. I just want to be sure I get the burner correct. Do you have a drawing of the burner? I plan on making two forges, one is about 2 feet long and 8" diameter (will take a couple burners). The other will be small, about 8" long by 9" diameter (for small stuff) and will feed both off of the 100# tank. I will scale the burner down to use on the smaller forge.

I think I have a decent design but want to here more options from others before I decide.

Bob,
It only costs a few dollars to make a venturi style burner. You might consider making one and running it. As soon as you see it lit you will know whether it is for you or not. I'm voting for venturi because it's cool! However, it's more macho to use forced air.

Reuben

I have the set of plans, but the burner drawing folds
out so I will redraw to fit my scanner. I haven't
done any photo posting before so be patient please.
I will try to do it tomorrow AM.
I may just try your E-mail so if I screw up it isn't
all over the forum.:)
Rick

Either here or my e-mail would be great. Thanks for the assistance.

I built Ron Riel's freon bottle forge and I am very happy with it. It will reach welding heat with 4lb. of pressure. I'm using an acetylene regulator with a #60 orfice This little forge is perfect for knife making, very fuel efficent and easy to build.

I also would be interested in a set of plans for a forge if anyone is willing to share them with me.
Thaks in advance.
Mike

I have the image scanned, and fixed up saved and ready
to roll, but I can't get the swing of these
image posting instructions. IE they make no sence
to me. Am I a caveman or a chimp? Hey i just had an
idea. I must be a caveman. I think I may have it
figured out.
Rick

Tim Lively has a couple of Neo-Tribal forges that look pretty easy to make. I don't actually have any "plans" for mine.
I'll see if I can't fix some up to post.

I had no luck posting. If you mail me I can attach it to
a mail. I know I can do that much.
masterpeaces@aol.com
Sorry I have taken so long. I had to work my 4 day shift.
Rick

I am a new to bladesmithing as well as this forum, but I may be able to help. Recently I built a Gas forge from a scrap oxygen bottle. I am currently using the acetylene gauge off of my torch setup to regulate the propane flow into the burner. The left handed threads of the acetylene gauge fit a standard propane bottle, and easily adjust the propane flow from 0 lbs to 3lbs. (I never have used more than three pounds on my forge) I dont know if this is safe, but it has worked well for me.

Welcome to the forums Jack. Glad to have you!

Jack, I too would like to welcome you to the forums. Did you build your forge like the one on Don Foggs site? The acetylene regulator should be safe, you can even use propane in place of acetylene for your torch, just donesn't burn quite as hot and seems to pop a lot if you get the torch to close to what your heating, but the paperwork that came with my Victor cutting tourch even gives the setting recommendations for propane as well as acetylene.
Join in the fun, you will like it here.
Mike

Thanks Terry and Mike! It is nice for a newcomer like me to recieve this warm of welcome. To answer Mike, I did use the forge design that I found on Don Foggs website. I am also using propane rather than acetylene.Thanks again for the welcome!

Mike,
How's the forge building coming along? Have you settled on a design?

I spent a couple of days playing with an empty propane tank that would be my new forge until I realized that I have no way of welding aluminum and I certainly don't want to use bolts. I think I'll try an oxygen tank.

Reuben

Still gathering parts. I have most everything now except the kool-wool liner and firebrick. If I ever get it finished I'll post some pictures.
Mike

Great discussion going on here.

Mike - why are you going with the wool vs. refractory. And are you making a round or square forge?

Mike, I made mine using a stainless oxygen tank from
a home medical oxygen company. They are awesome. They
can only refill and repair them a certain number of
times. I know a guy who runs the repair dept here.
I got two from him and gave one away. They are a can
inside of a can. Mine was about 2' tall with handles
on the outside. I cut it open with a air cut-off and
found an inner tank the size of a 5 gal bucket. I use
the small for forge, and the out for a stainless slack
tub. Just an idea.
Rick
Did the burner look like something you would try?

Do you have a good source for the whool? Will you be using a product like ITC 100 over it? Here in Baltimore the pottery comunity is awesome and most of the people who have built kilns have large amounts of the whool left over and are more than willing to just give it away.

Reuben

Hi guys,
Geno,
Planning to make it round and thought the wool would be easier to apply.
As far as a source, I have looked at several suppliers on the net, but haven't placed an order yet. If anyone knows of a good source please let me know.
The burner plans look good and are along the lines of what I had in mind, I want to make sure the forge will attain welding temps and yet run as cheaply as possible before I actually assemble it, don't want to have to do it more than once. With the current price of propane I probably couldn't have picked a worsr time to try this, but that is just the way it goes. I am really Jazzed about this and can't wait to get going, but I'd rather take my time and do it right the first time. I am open to suggestions and input from anyone who is willing to offer them.
Thanks for the help,
Mike

Mike,
Please reconsider using only the "wool", Kaowool, Inswool, etc. Ceramic fiber insulation is hazardous stuff.

It is best to apply a coat of refractory such as Satanite to the fiber once it's in place. It extends the life of the fiber and helps prevent the fibers from becoming airborne.

You don't want this stuff in your lungs.

Mike, I got my kiln shelf and some soft firebricks
from a place called chesapeak ceramics. I have lost the
address. The bricks were 4.00 each, and the 8x16"
kiln shelf was around 20.00 if I remember right.
They have a big web page shouldn't be hard to find.
Rick

Terry,
I plan to coat it and have had ITC100 recommended.
Looked at the web site for the product and it looks good.
Mike

I've heard the wool wears out too quick. I've never used it. (I seem to remember a discussion on the KnifeList about refractory vs wool. I also think Ed has experience with both.)

I get my refractory plaster from a local oven maker. You mix it up like plaster and pour it. When it dries, its hard. It's heavy, but heavy duty too. I wouldn't recommend getting a fiber type insulation. Fiber can wage war on your lungs.

I've seen fire brick used also. Many time with refractory poured around the brick.

Hi Folks!
Gene sent me the URL to this thread, and I figured I'd add my two cents...........
On the regulator, please don't mess around with BBQ type regulators. They aren't made to handle the usage your gona put one through using it on a forge, and sooner or later someone will be sifting through the ashes of your shop looking for pieces of you!
Go to a propane outfit in your area and purchase an adjustable regulator. They run about $35 in my part of the country, usually they can be had in three different pressure ranges. The low or mid range will be what you need.
My thoughts on the ceramic fiber blankets..........
Great for portability, but that's where my liking for them ends. I have one in the shop for traveling, and sometimes use it for forging straight steels. Problem has always been that you are continually snagging the blanket when working, and it's sorta like breathing fiberglass insulation........really scratchy, raw throat is the result, and Lord knows what it does to your lungs. Over the long term the replacing of it can get spendy too. I kept track over 2 years, and in that time I spent enough on ceramic blanket to build 3 castable refractory forges. You'll plunk down more money initally for the castable, but my last one went for over 5 years of daily use before I overhauled it, and in it's current form, it has been in use almost daily for 2 years. Several years back, when I first started messing with gas forges, I read something about coal vs ceramic fiber blanket........it said "Why trade one health hazard for another?" That's sorta stuck with me, and is on of the big reasons I like the castable refractories. Just my thoughts..........

Geno,
where did you det it locally?
Mike

i use don fogg`s design and i love it i weld at 2 pounds pressure but that don`t mean much unless you know the orfice size