Hello there, ladies and gentlemen.

I've been commissioned to design and build a hunting knife for my landlord.
Fine, I've seen what so many hunting knives LOOK like.
I've never hunted.
In fact, I've never slept outdoors.
Asking him just what and how he uses the knife certainly helps me with the design process,
but I'm curious as to what traits define a 'Hunting' knife in the broader sense,
aside from 'a knife used for hunting'. Are there certain generally accepted criteria?

Dodd,

I am sure someone else that knows more will chime in, there are a lot of great hunters made around here.

I hunt a lot, and have seen a lot of knives designed for hunting, depending on the game that is being persued. The Nessmuk is a type of hunter with a view to skining, as are the green river buffalo skinners, which add an element of butchering to their ability.

I think you nailed the overall in 'a knife used for hunting', as last year, even with other knives I had made for hunting in my pack, I used a slipjoint for the entire field dressing on two mule deer, used others back in camp for skinning and processing though.

In general though, when I think of a hunter (I have just pounded steel to the shape of a knife, what am I going to call it :) ), I usually define it as a blade between 3-5 inches long, a drop or a clip point, full length handle for grip. From the display case, some really good examples of what I think of

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37889&highlight=hunter
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37896&highlight=hunter
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37813&highlight=hunter
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37772&highlight=hunter
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37672&highlight=hunter

I also like somewhere for the index finger to slip into (guard, indent, etc) to prevent slipping onto the blade.

What he hunts would also make a big difference in style. If he hunts moose, grizzly bear, etc, I would go with a larger knife (5-6 inch blade) vs mule deer, elk vs whitetail, blacktail vs someone who hunts upland game exclusively (bird and trout design).

Another thing to consider, does he trophy hunt? If so, a hunter and caper pair might be nice.

--Carl

I am in agreement with Carl. First question would be what he hunts, and where. There are different knives for different tasks. No one knife does them all well, but certain designs are better at several of them.

If your landlord is a "typical" hunter (in my mind), he will need a knife to field dress a deer to the point it can be taken out of the field and taken to a butcher/meat processor. This requires making a cut through the hide and abdominal muscles to open up the body cavity, and cutting through the pelvic bone to remove the innards. Usually a small saw or hatchet is used for the bone, and a 3-4 inch drop point, clip point, or upsept blade is sufficient for the rest of the work.

I butcher my own meat from whitetails, and use 2 different knives generally. One is a 4 inch drop point or clip point that I use to make the initial cut for gutting and is also good for quartering and cutting the meat into chunks. I use a extremely upswept rounded blade for skinning--it's a Camillus but I don't know the model. Think of it as an ulu with a knife handle. The buffalo hunter or Nessmuk would work for this as well. The curved blade offers a lot of cutting edge, and like a scimitar, the curvature allows for constant cutting action.

If your landlord is going after larger game where he may have to pack out quarters, then consider a longer, thicker blade for cutting the joints of elk, moose, etc.

If a trophy hunter, then a small fine blade for accurate work to remove the hide from the shoulders and head is needed (caping). Like Carl said, depending on the type of hunting your landlord does, a set might be handy. Hop onto Cabela's website and take a look at the sets offered from Knives of Alaska as examples.

Two great answers!

Let me add one thing: the choice of steel. 1080/1095/5160 all make pretty good hunting knives. They hold an edge and are relatively easy to sharpen. However, your landlord may prefer stainless as hunting conditions are often wet.

Wouldn't hurt to ask if he'd rather have something that really holds an edge or something relatively easy to sharpen. Personally, it's not a problem for me as I try to keep any edge sharpened. But I've heard many hunters complain about Buck knives (which are 420HC) because they are "hard to sharpen". That's a sign that the hunter doesn't touch a sharpening stone until the knife is as dull as a screwdriver. Sticking someone like that with S30V will be sure to generate complaints.

Lastly, you really should try to get outside! You don't know what you're missing!!

Lastly, you really should try to get outside! You don't know what you're missing!!

This should be top on your list! Make yourself a set and take them out, if you get an animal, the next ones you make will be much better for the purpose.

--Carl

I had an afterthought and thought I'd follow up.

If this is going to be a using knife, give careful consideration to handle design, both shape and materials. If it will be used hard, consider using micarta or stabilized woods. Stag crown looks nice if that's what your landlord wants, but it can wear blisters in the hand after long use. The same (I feel) with excessive finger grooves. I prefer one finger groove for the index finger, or a gentle curve to the underside of the blade to fill the hand.

Guards are not always necessary, but imagine trying to use a knife where your hands are covered in blood and mud. A large guard will get in the way of work, but I like having one there, just big enough to deflect my fingers away from the blade in case my hand slips. Look at the size of the guards of the old Marble's Woodcrafts--not much there, but they're there.

If you plan to do filework, keep it to a minimum along the spine--just enough to give the index finger or thumb a solid resting point. Otherwise it's just decoration that he'll have to scrape dried blood out of later.

Unless you plan to grind a deep hollowground blade, I personally wouldn't go over 1/8 inch stock for the blade. The best hunting knives I've used in the past have had thin blades, just thick enough not to flex (like a filet knife).

Find out also if your landlord intends to carry the knife while hunting, or keep it in the pack. That will give you some idea about sheath design as well.

Thong tubes are a personal preference. I've used knives with and without them, and I can take em or leave them. Usually I leave them, but that's my preference and also has to do a lot with how I hold a knife when processing deer.

WOW!

Thank you gentlemen!
I agree with everything you've all said.

I turned down last week's bear hunt as I had...um...'work to catch up on' (it's COLD outdoors!)

So he's a former game warden and stalks his prey;
mostly black bear and deer, though Elk should be next.

He avoids hunting Cougar, as he really likes them.
One attacked him last time and he tried to let it go without shooting it,
but she persisted and he had to shoot her.
he said he reached for where his knife should have been and it wasn't.
I'll post a picture of the idea of my knife shortly.

I"m thinking a brass guard despite the cold and wet,
and a purpleheart handle with a lanyard hole, because I have so much of that delicious wood, and he likes it.
I've built several wooden mockus to feel it out in the various positions one uses a knife.

I gave it some belly, and kept the point high up, but not quite upswept.
I have a dull false edge on the back and a choil ahead of the guard.
I've kept the size of the blade less than 6". In fact the whole thing is about 7.7" long and more than an inch wide.

Now I need some 1/8th (or I think I prefer 3/16ths) 1095 or 5160.
Impossible to find here in BC Canada, though I must say I'm new here.

once I get me a forge, i suppose I can just thermocycle some leaf springs or weld some files together, eh?

Thanks again, boys.

Don't leave us hanging now, you'll definitely need to keep us in the loop and post pics on its progress. I for one am interested to see how it turns out.

Really!?
Thanks guys, that's really inspirational.

Here's my photoshopped mockup.
Please let me hear your opinions.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5064&d=1158242749

Personal preference here only, but I would take the top edge off. I just tried it and it didn't look good.

I guess my point is, I like a pointy-point at the end of a hunting knife, just too many things that needs that point when cleaning an animal.

Otherwise I think this is looking good.

--Carl

Okay, I was going for keeping the opint out the way for skinning,
but having enough reinforcement via the swedge that I have a strong point.
The silhouette looks a little like nessmuk or 'canadian' style hunter.

That and I personally don't like the LOOK of clipped points.
again, that's not even academic, just aesthetic.

....say, what do you mean you 'just tried it'?
That sounds very adventurous! :D

Dodd,

Grabbed you pic, and took the swedge off with a stroke of the mouse. Looked horrible.

For skinning, I would stick with this one. For general hunt, gut, drag back to camp, I would like a little more point, but again, this will work. Maybe, slim it up to a spear-point style so you have a little more point.

wrt a nessmuk, usually you get a pretty good point on those also.

To let you know, my first knife (O-1 and lacewood, hacksaws, files, sandpaper) is still in my pack during hunting seasons. I designed it with a good belly, great little skinner. Not much worth in the field dressing tasks. First deer I took after making it I tried it, quickly put it aside and pulled out my backup knife. Later used it as a skinner, and it shined. Learned a lot about field knives that day.

For steel like you are looking at, I would try Kelly Couples, great guy and good prices, should be able to get a few sticks for a reasonable price.

--Carl

Oh!

I thought "field dressing" WAS skinning.
I've just learned a lot.
I can put some more point on it then.
It looks a tad fat anyway.

Thanks a bunch.

I hear only good things about Kelly Cupples,
but they're in the US, I'm in Canada, and after all's told, I could buy myself a fancier knife than I could make for the price of the steel alone.

well, maybe not exactly, but it's close.
Will files and leaf springs work? ;-)

okay, okay, I"ve given some forward cant to the blade and tidied up the handle:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5068&d=1158278877

I really like where you are going with this. I think you are really ready to make this and fiddle with the exact shape when you get to final shaping, let the steel talk to you. I would probably start the curve to the tip on the edge size a little further back, but you should get a good feel when grinding.

This is really turning into a nice looking knife.

For friends/family/experimenting, I wouldn't hesitate to play with files and leaf springs. I have made some cool things while playing with old files. Do you know what shipping is to Canada, I know Kelly ships free in the US if you spend $50, so you might get reasonable to Canada. Also, if you know the size, I might be able to find a piece and get it to you for my price + shipping. Shouldn't be too much to get up to you.

--Carl

Dodd,

I really think you've got it with that second pic. What are the dimensions? The finger groove ahead of the guard is a good idea for choking up on the blade for close work.

Generally, field dressing only requires opening up the body cavity (and usually cutting through pelvic bone) to remove the guts. This is the minimum most hunters will do in the field for whitetail deer, especially if they plan to take it to a butcher. A clip point or drop point design is good for this task, and your design should be good here.

Skinning can come later, and requires removing the hide from the body. Around the shoulders and back of a deer there is a lot of connective tissue that needs to be cut away. Thin upswept blades with lots of belly like the Nessmuk, buffalo knife, or Grohmann are good here. Your knife will still do fine, but won't be as efficient for cutting as something with a lot more curve. I've skinned out deer with knives similar to your design, with no complaints.

For larger animals that may need to be packed out, quartering is required. This is when the limbs are cut away from the torso at the shoulder or hip. This means cutting through a good bit of tendons and cartilage, especially for the hind leg at the hip joint. A thicker blade is nice here for a little added strength. Your blade design is a good one for this task, and if your landlord intends to hunt a lot of large animals (elk or moose) then you might consider going with thicker stock. Otherwise, if it will be used primarily on whitetail deer then 1/8 inch should be fine.

For trophy animals a small blade is needed for fine skinning and cutting to remove the hide from the skull without poking holes in it. Your knife will probably be too big for this task

Overall I think you've designed a good overall hunting knife. I see some similarities in the blade shape to a Buck Vanguard, a large droppoint that has been popular for many years.

Those are very informative answers.

To review:
1. The blade OAL is 7.7 inches, by about 1 1/4 inches, assuming it's full tang.
2. I should give it a little more belly and extend the swedge further towards the guard
3. I should consider 3/16ths inch steel rather than 1 inch if it's being used on eld and bear.


This is really great.
I'm working on a ladies' dagger, big camp knife and seax ground from files to practice technique.

Hey guys-- I assume from the last posting date this thread is dead. In case not; I'm a relatively green collecter (10 years). I collect folders mostly and know next to nothing about fixed blades but the other dat I saw a D. F. Kressler drop-point hunter. Mmm...now if I could afford a hunter like that I'd get it. It's such a beauty, but what I'm wondering is would it be as fine and durable a tool as it looks?

Gray,

I do not know anything about D.F Kressler, so I really can't comment on that. As far as the thread being dead, I think you should raise on ald thread when it fits, keeps the same info from being re-hashed as much.

I would probably start a thread asking about Kressler if you want more info, I'm sure somebody might know his work.

Any progress on this Dodd? Really looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

--Carl

Dodd,

This may be a case of great minds thinking alike. Here is a pic of a 50's Loveless Delaware Maid drop point hunter. I couldn't help but notice the resemblance. :D

Ron

http://www.fototime.com/04F5470D2651155/standard.jpg

I would also think about taking the top edge off. When I use a knife for some things I like to put my index finger out on the back of the blade, a false edge makes this uncomfortable. The finger groove in the blade would also be very conductive to using it this way.