I know that heat-coloring carbon damascus can yield nice results but has a tendency to fade quickly, especially if handled frequently. But I'm wondering if the color achieved as a result of heat treating might last any longer?

One of my flashlight buddies is making a limited run of damascus flashlights using Del Ealy's carbon damascus steel (zebra pattern). The bodies have already been made and the heat treat (by Del) has yielded a very nice, vivid blue (When I heat treat my blades I usually get brown/rust with swirls of color...nothing like this blue. And I never have a chance to find out how long it'll last because I always sand it off prior to nitre bluing or etching). I've suggested to everyone that nitre bluing could produce other, possibly even more vivid colors...and that the process would offer somewhat greater staying power. That statement was based on my personal experience with heat coloring (with a torch)...but now I'm wondering if I'm right about heat treat color.

Any thoughts?

Here's a photo of one of the lights (In case you're wondering the limited run is sold out):
http://img.clubphoto.com/xyzzy/4506124/12/480/null/fun.jpg


Dennis Greenbaum

Dennis,

Heat coloring is just a thin oxidation layer, very similar to anodizing on titanium. It does seem slightly more durable but it is still going to wear pretty quickly where it is handled.

I think Del got his color by tempering to somewhere near spring hardness in a nuetral atmoshere (just a guess) and that might give a thicker layer of oxidation but we are still talking microscopically thin layers .........

Ray- As always thanks for the quick response. I'm sorry if I didn't express myself clearly.

I've done my share of heat coloring...I do understand the process and do know that it's not all that durable. The reason I'm specifically asking about color derived from heat treating is that, as you suggest, I too suspect that it's gonna inherently leave a somewhat thicker oxidation layer than the heat coloring I've done with a torch.

So given that, I'd like to know if anyone has specific experience with the durability of color from heat treat.

Dennis

Years ago, I used to heat color or just leave the temper colors on damascus and carbon steels. I quit because it just wasn't durable with alot of handling and a flash light will get alot of handling. I would give them a deep etch that will be there indefinitely. Next best finish would be a hot gun blue, not nitre.

Gun bluing was another option I had brought up to my flashlight guys, and that might be worth looking into...perhaps for the next batch of lights (assuming they decide to make another). I know that most gun bluing is very dark, almost black. Although I've heard that it's possible to achieve other colors.

I did tell them although nitre bluing yields a broader range of colors it still offers only somewhat better durability than heat coloring.

I think that a deep etch is the way to go especially if they'll be EDCing these lights...and that's what I've advised them.

Thanks.

Dennis

Nice light! good thing the run is sold out, I'm already broke ;)

My O-1 blades hold the temper color quite well, my EDC camp knife was used for general cutting and dropping/trimming treas for about 10 monthes before the gold tone wore off enough to be unsightly.... by that time it had patina'd enough to form a rainbow of blue and gold. 1095 doesn't seem to hold it verry well at all.like it forms less of an oxidization.

Ummmm.... the way I understand it, nitrate bluing is the same as hot gun blueing.....or have I gotten mixed up somewhere?

G.

Nitre bluing is a different process... Gun bluing is much longer-lasting but to achieve that it involves extremely caustic chemicals and should really be done outdoors or in commercially ventilated areas. It requires special tanks and equipment that can run nearly $2000 in costs. It usually gets you a dark blue, almost black color.

I've never done gun bluing. I do my nitre bluing on my kitchen stove using a stainless bowl. The simple version: Simply heat the salts (available from Brownell's) until they're molten. Best colors are usually obtained at 525-600 degrees F (use a good, commercial-grade thermometer...it's a narrow window)....And it also depends on how long you leave the steel in the bowl (the molten salt is fairly transparent...you can actually watch the steel change and pull it out when it gets near the desired color). Then run it under water to "freeze" the color. Immediately dry it well to prevent rust (a quick spritz with acetone will remove all moisture). Experiment....You can always sand off the oxidation and try it again. ;-)


Dennis

Ahhhh! I was under the impression it was just as toxic as the gun blue methods, and the same process more or less, just a different chemical.... Thanks Dennis!


Gary.
(off to buy the salts)

If it were me and I wanted color that would stay fora while I would first nitre blue it and then have it clear powder coated.

Hot gun bluing is also done at a temp below the tempering temps of cabon steel, would not matter on a flashlight but is a plus for blades.

Here's a thought. Try some DuraCoat. (http://www.lauerweaponry.com/ ) They have it in clear, an it requires no baking to harden it. So it won't change the color, or effect temper. I got the kit, but haven't used it yet. I want to use the clear on anodised, or heat colored Ti. I'm sure it would work well on Damascus.

Jeremy

The lights have finally been completed! Here's some pics and the story, posted by one of the owners of the two lights that I re-finished:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=281416#post281416


Dennis Greenbaum