This is an old folding weapon that was purchased in France during the late 40's or early 50's by the father of a customer of mine.

It's marked "Hugo Koller, Solingen".

Anyway, at his request, I'm making another like it so that my customer can pass the original on to his son. He'll keep the one I'm making.

I vaguely remember seeing a picture of one of these knives when I was much younger, but I don't remember anything about it.

I have a suspicion that it may have been a German officer's dress knife during the war. ???

This is the same knife in it's sheath.

The sheath has a slit in the back loop to fit over a belt stud.

Kind of neat, huh?


Now somebody tell me all about it.:101 :D :D

What a neat project. Aside from sentimental value, the German renditions of this pattern, altho well made are not all that valuable at this time. I don't know much about the Koller name, but, maybe you could squeeze 300 for a real cherry one. The Sheffields in this pattern and even the Americans(PAL) go for about three times that.(ballpark figures) If I was the kid, I would take the one you make, and let Dad keep the original.:D Hope we get to to see your finished product. Some in progress pics would be nice and some thoughts on any problems you had to solve making it. I don't ask for much, ehh?

I'll do that, HDN.

I'll do just that. I have the knife about 2/3rds. ready to put together and finish.

Now tell me how to find an American version. And a French.

And, could this be a war souvenir?

I am not aware of a French version but I will keep an eye out for a pic of one for you. Some of the fancy looking ones are from Toledo Spain like the pic below.
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/actionexpress/4505.JPG

The Sheffields that I have seen are a little less rakish but have their own embelishments like the checked handles. The guy is trying to get $1,500 for the one below. You can see the swing guard is missing in the pic. It is called "The Hunters Pal" Not to be confused with the ones made By the PAL cutlery company who took over knifemaking from Remington.
http://i3.ebayimg.com/05/i/06/c2/5f/b1_1.JPG

Camillus made one with a bolo style blade for the military during WW2.
http://i2.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/c5/af/a6_1.JPG

Mike Silvey would be the best one to ask about the chances that those style knives were carried by German officers. If you want those pics you should save them as the are up temporarily on Ebay. I'll snoop around some more.

Great, HDN.

I don't see a latch on the others like the one I posted. The blade is locked both open and closed with the swing latch.

So far I like mine the best. ;)

Yes I noticed that latch. Most of the ones I have seen have a lever lock on them like the German stag one below. I just read that they were made in about every country that made knives and that the practice of stealing patterns and making cheap copies was going on as far back as the 1800's
http://members.sparedollar.com/resize.aspx?user=easyopener&img=FOLDER12.jpg&size=600

Edit to say , this one had a "buy it now" of $349

HDN, here's what I have so far. I'm working on the locking lever now, as you can see. It will have a small hardened wheel on the forward end that applies pressure to the back spring as you swing the lock closed.

It's not intended to be an exact relica. I hate square corners, so all corners are radiused.

The guard/bolsters are made of 416 stainless, the liners are brass. The blade is S30V.

I had to get the stag from the far east.

Whatcha thinkaboutit, guys???:eek:

Wow! That is looking so good. Those look like some really nice slabs you have to go on it also. Thanks for posting those in progress pics. Recreating old patterns really gets my jucies flowing.

As usual I was too hasty in first impression value of your friends knife. All the repros and cheap copies of this pattern made me knee jerk poo poo it. I am very sorry about that. I had never heard of Hugo Koller because they are very rare. They were made by Koller in Solingen Germany from 1905- 1927. As you can probably tell from having it in hand, it should be of fine quality. It might be a good idea for your friend to get it professionally appraised for insurance purposes and documentation to follow with it into the future. Cost of apprasial is 25 bucks. I would be curious as to what one of these "real" ones are worth.

I will keep digging.

Does this look like the makers mark on it?
http://www.germandaggers.com/makermarkimages/koller180.jpg

Does this look like the makers mark on it?
http://www.germandaggers.com/makermarkimages/koller180.jpg

That's it exactly. In my first post the picture on the right shows this mark.

Do you think it's worth more than $9,999.95?

I told the owner I'd charge him $ 1,000.00 over the actual value of the original for the new one.:D :gossip:

Thanks a bunch for the good information. This looks like a better knife than any you've posted to me.

Here's a more recent knock-off version by Hoffritz. This one is probably from the 1970s, is basically a 'factory knife' and might fetch $70-$80 max.

http://www.fototime.com/328B9DD2BE97754/orig.jpg

The one you pictured at the top, Don, certainly appears to be older and authentic. The one you're making based on the original looks like it will be very nice! The stag looks to be primo too.

Thanks, Buddy.

Now I've got 2 pros looking for more information. :)

I imagine though that the old dates of manufacture and the maker's mark are about all we'll get, huh?

I really appreciate the information from both of you. I've passed it on to the owner.

His family is from South America but they've lived all over Europe at one time or another.

He's teaching me how to say "cloissone" (sp?) in french.:)

Well, now that I am all out of facts it is time for some musings and speculation. Assuming this pattern developed in Germany, it may have evolved to an easy carry version of the Forestry, Forrester, German Hunting or sticking knife. At one time (1700's) German hunters carried a long knife or short sword as part of a hunting set to dispatch a wounded or dieing animal instead of wasting another shot. For some reason these what we call folding bowies remind me of those long bladed, stag handled stickers. Mostly done up with jumping stag scenes and acorn shaped guards they blur the line between art, totem and function. Here is a pic of a nice one on ebay right now. I have wondered what the purpose or symbolizim of the shell would be.
http://members.cox.net/yrusure/germanhirschfanger4.jpg
http://members.cox.net/yrusure/germanhirschfanger1.jpg

Interesting speculation about the evolvement. You may be right.

That's an interesting sticker. If it's old it's sure in great shape.

I have no idea what the shell is for.

I read that the knives were used as a sort of badge among the Foresters denoting rank in some way. Maybe the shells size, shape or pattern meant something (pure speculation.) Notice that the cross guard depicts the legs and hoofs of a stag. These knives were used as boar knives for sport hunting also in conjunction with a dog and a spear. I would like to see one of the spears.

Don you wanted a pic of a French model here is one with a horn handle in the Laguiole style by G. David of of France. New made.
http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/d1/94/9b_1.JPG
http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/d1/21/a9_1.JPG

That looks like a lockback. The swing guard isn't the lock.

Clever sheath.:)

The lock
http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/d0/d5/29_1.JPG
ebay item(clickhere) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6621809400&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)

Another french model by Chambriard.
http://www.knivescollection.com/public/AIN00061KCT.jpg

I like that one. The blade's straight out either way.

And it's got a removable pivot pin!

My customer wants to have his "folding forestor's knife" appraised. Looks like it may be the genuine article.

Who's the expert on this type of knife?

If it's valuable, maybe he'll keep it and have me make another one to give to his son.

That'll be two. :rockon: :rockon: :D

Looking at the knife I suspect it was made in a small factory and assembled and finished by a bench craftsman. The handle finish quality could be better.

Don, I refinished, rehandled, and made a sheath for one very simular to the one that you have shown about four years ago. It was made in Prussia in 1911, the handle was deterating greatly and I had to remake the release button for it. The release Button was like an autop release buttton as the lock went into a small hole in the blade to keep it closed. The origional sheath was basically falling apart so I made a Kydex sheath and covered it with Black suede. If you would like to see the origional/refinished send me an e-mail.

Don, I refinished, rehandled, and made a sheath for one very simular to the one that you have shown about four years ago. It was made in Prussia in 1911, the handle was deterating greatly and I had to remake the release button for it. The release Button was like an autop release buttton as the lock went into a small hole in the blade to keep it closed. The origional sheath was basically falling apart so I made a Kydex sheath and covered it with Black suede. If you would like to see the origional/refinished send me an e-mail.

Well, hi, Curtis.

I haven't talked to you for at least 15 years or so. Remember Russ keppler's "Knife-List?

I surely do want to see your picture. I'll email you.:) :)

My customer who owns the original knife definitely wants an appraisal.

Bernard Levine, or someone else?

We're going to need a sheath made for the knife I'm making. :gossip:

Sorry Don, I don't know how I missed your post from 4-20. Bernard is the only one I know. If he thinks someone else will know better he will ask them. Here is a link.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/links.htm#knife%20questions

Been waiting patiently for an update. Didn't want to pressure ya....lol

It would be cool to go back in time and see one of those small factories. I have some old "Knives" mags and one article with an interview with the owner of I think Schrade said he used to walk thru the warehouse and hear the backsprings popping and snapping on the knifes that were boxed and ready to be shipped. I don't know what made me think of that.
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/sheffield_knife_grinders.JPG
Old sheffield knife grinders

I'm working on this knife today. Final fitting before finishing. Lock works well, had to grind a lot off the stag scales, but they will look good.

Now I gotta get out in the shop and hand rub the blade, polish the insides of the liners, smooth everything up and sand and polish the handle.

'Course, I'll need to peen all the pins before finishing.

Pictures soon.

I'm really enjoying making this useless knife and will make more of them when and if I get a little spare time.

That is, unless some of you guys want to place an order for one. That'll put yours on my backlog list and I won't need to do it in my spare??? time.:101

The shell is actually a take off of the origional short sword as a blade guard for the hand, and also as a blade braker for weaker blades, or foils. You never knew who you would meet when out hunting. But mainly for embellishment for the upper class.

Thank you Curtis.

Yeah, thanks for the shell info, Curtis.

I couldn't open the photos you sent. Can you convert them to .jpg files? We'd like to see them.

This is the way it looked this morning.

Here is the way it looks this afternoon.

A little polishing on the handle and it'll be ready to go to the owner.:D :101

Wow! That is one wicked sticker. Little doubt as to the purpose of those was for the Coup de Grace. Sounds like a good name for it.

"The Coup de Grace" by Don Robinson.

Don ...

I'm glad you're on our side!

Alex

Curtis (CWKnifeman) sent me two photos of the knife he mentioned in a previous post.


Before and after he worked on it for his customer.

Ahhh... a Kissing Crane. Very nice. And a very nice restoration.

Hey, this is kind of fun, huh?:rockon:

Paul Long (Sheathmaker on the forums) has agreed to make the sheath for my knife.:101

Thanks for the nice comments hammerdownnow. It was actually a piece that I really enjoyed working on, I've done a couple for these type of restoration. One that I didn't get photo's of was an engraved double lock-back Trapper Had to replace a custom blade and then re do the engraving where the bolster pins were.

Curtis,I have a few older Kissing Crane's that I cherish. Robt. Klaas is one of my favorite German makers.

Don, Good choice on the sheathmaker. There are so many outstanding leather workers on here. It would be a tough choice to pick one. Can't wait to see what he comes up with.

Seeing as the old Sheffield folding bowies are way up there in price above an average collector, the German ones are still within reach for most. SHHHH don't tell. I think they too will skyrocket in price at some point.

I was thinking that repro'ing the sheffield style folding bowies might be popular, but I dont see it being done much. I had an idea if I ever get a dollar ahead to have Don make me a copy of one of my favorites. The Samual Wragg folding Bowie(shown below) in either a slip joint or a picklock with some nice big bolsters to have ingraved. Something about that knife I really like. I was going to try to incorporate the profile in my failed attempt in the Barlow build along Don put on awhile back.Hopefully someone will run with that idea someday and i'll at least get to collect the pic.:p
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/Samuel_Wragg_folder.jpg

Hey, HDN, that would be a fun project too:101 .

Making the knife is no problem, and I could make/leave the bolsters however you want for engraving. NS, stainless, brass, sterling, whatever your little heart desires.

Be fun to do it as a project on this forum too, and show pictures of WIP.:rockon: :p

I would be willing to do the engraving Deep Relief, with the exception that I got a copy of the pattern. Doing deep relief I would prefer either NS or Sterling; the patina will be better over time. For the aft bolster I could use your coat of arms if you have one of even mine.
Let me know if the two of you want to do this.
Curtis

That sounds like a cool collaboration.

Here's a little picture I worked on this afternoon after we got back from a 30 shrimp dinner/lunch at Red Lobster.:eek: :p

...and a bigger pic, for us old guys.:p
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/don_robinson_forester2.jpg

Thanks, HDN.

Beautiful job Don. Jose is going to be very happy.

Here is a pic of an English model with a cool slip on blade guard. (EDIT) Pakistani not English.
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/06/ed/ed/ee_3.JPG
ebay item(clickhere) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6625477632&indexURL=3&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting)

Now that is cool.

And the blade latch works like mine. That's the first one here with the same swing latch.

OOPS! This is a good example of letting a lunatic (me) run loose in the funny farm.:banplease

EXPERT Opinion (click here) (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403077)

http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/07/02/30/97_12.JPG

To see the final result of Paul Long's and my collaboration on this repro with sheath, please go here to the Sheathmaking forum.

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=258087#post258087

Very nice! Thanks for letting us follow along on this one. Nice package. Very secure looking nest to protect that knife.

Because BF is down, the link to my post above identifies the knife with the brass sleeve as a pakistan clone and not a Sheffield folding bowie as described by the ebay seller.