Hi, Steve.
What is your take on the history and design on the chute knife? I know you made a chute designed by Harry Archer, but I don't know who Harry Archer is.

To me (being the super-duper paratrooper that I am), a useful chute knife would have a gut hook on it for two reasons:

1. If you had to grab it to cut away, with the nature of the position your are in (suspension lines behind you), a reverse swipe will be the easiest, most efficient way to reach back. This is going to be a blind, behind the head cut in the best of situations. You will probably be tumbling, though.

2. The gut hook would help gather the suspension lines as you make your swiping motion. There will be no time to think.

We are talking static line jumping here. Training jump heights are typically 800-1150 feet. Combat jumps are 500 feet. Jumping from 1000 feet, you lose 300 feet or so upon exit from the plane as your chute deploys (everyone count...one thousand...two thousand...three thousand...four thousand...). With a partial malfunction (chute has some lift capability) you might have a bit more time, but with a full malfunction right from the exit of the plane, there is no slow down, only acceleration. With those few seconds, and instinctive, repetitive training, a cut-away has to be successfully accomplished in one swipe to allow time for the reserve chute to be employed and blossom. If you pull your reserve with the ground 250 feet away, it will open to full lift capability about 2 seconds after you hit the ground:) Ouch.

Harry Archer was a VMI Grad. who spent a lot of time in Vietnam; at least while I knew him, s well as other hot spots. He was a paratrooper and what I remember (this was about 30 yrs ago) is that the 'Chute Knife was an all-purpose knife that could get you out of a tree, should you get hung up, and serve as a general survival and combat knife. The top sharp clip was to be used in much the way you describe, Bob - in an over the head backwards swipe.

I am not able to report much on his "activities," really. I do remember him wrting from the field in Vietnam while I was in L.A.

I do, also, remember him as one of the nicest, most classy, gentlemen I've had the privilige of knowing. He died a few years ago. His memory will always mean so very much to me. What fond memories you've brought back, Bob. You'd have gotten along with him very well.

My "Archer 'Chute," designed in about 1972-73, was different than the Loveless version, maybe designed in about 1970-71(?), as it was a bit shorter and had a straighter handle and more belly in the bottom edge and a sharper-angled clip on top.

It would be neat, in my oinion, if Ken Warner and Bob Lovess were to write a book about him. A truly great man, who is worthy of being remembered.

Hey Steve ...

I asked this in the general forum on this topic, but I'd rather ask you directly. Do you know why the Chute knife was never designed with a "leash" type of thing that might have attached to your belt? I've always wondered why they didn't make it where it wouldn't get away from you if you were trying to cut loose in a violent freefall ...

I know it's not a very stylish component, but I'd hate to fumble one in that type of emergency situation.

Alex

All I can say to that is that both models had a lanyard hole at the end of the handle which could serve as you describe. The Johnson version had a 3/8" hole. Both had holes through the guard to allow lashing to a stick ,as in "spear/lance," should the situation warrant. Otherwise, I'm not sure if the holes address the "leash" question, or not.

We'll ...

Having said that. I've seen them without the lanyard hole, so that made me wonder. Of course, they certainly weren't SRJ's.

I'll tell you one thing ... now that I think of it. If my life were on the line, I'd like to know that it was an SRJ caliber knife in my hand.

I'd also bet, many men here would agree with me too! There are some things that just shouldn't be short-changed.

In fact, I may need to go over to Bladeforums again on a "mission of mercy" one day, so I better start saving up to get me one. I'll probably need it ... :)

Alex

Yore so kind!

Actually they seem to be a very nice bunch of folks over there.

Even them what don't know that they're talkin' to a reeel famus guy! (We all need to be humbled now and then, did me good).

I've never seen a 'Chute w/o a thong hole, interesting....

I was wondering about this also, to me a chute knife looks like the wwII quartermasters knife with a sharpened clip. the quartermasters knife was basically a 5 1/2" in version of the marine fighting knife (ka-bar) with a wider blade about 2" so it had more belly. otherwise same construction (stacked leather washer handle)

I also know that the german partroops where issued a small auto. the blade didn't pop out however, they had a horsepick looking thing, which was a gut style hook. on the auto button.

can someone post a pic of a chute knife?? I have seen some, but would like to see one of the original. From the description, it sounds like a good all around knife!

This reminds me that the most beatyfull knife i have ever seen was a Chute by Steve. it is probably the one refered to. It has stag handle and the holes in the guard. It is a beauty

Yeah ... let's get a real Chute knife image in here to look at. We want an SRJ!

BTW - where's that webmaster of yours? I want at least one SRJ image a week in here. How about you men?

My goodness, Dog. You've got "the man" under contract and ain't even showing us any goodies to look up to...

You know? Steve, most webmasters (except me ;) )are like "pinatas". You have to beat the crud out of them to get any goodies to fall out! :lol:

Alex

Does anyone else see these personal attacks Alex is making on me?:) Actually, the only good color pics of Steve's chute knives are in one of the the Weyer Points of Interest books. I would have to make a scan.

Wow!!!!! The things you can learn here on this forum. I thought I was collecting "shoot" knives in the bottom drawer of my shop. Every time I mess one up,I pitch it in the drawer and say "SHOOT"!!!!!!!,then start over.
Now I find out theres a market for them.



hehehehehehehehehe.



BTW This is Gene Not Pat,just logged on as her.

Thanks, Jens. By the way, did that "Chute, to which you refer, have a thick guard, about 5/8" or so? If it did, I know which one you mean.

Gene, come to think of it, it didn't sound like that sweet Pat. You can't fool us!

As to Bob's performance as "Webmaster," all I can say is, "I'm unworthy!" He's fantastic!

I do have an SRJ "Chute knife" photo that I'll scan and "shoot" (You're so funny, Johnson...not!) off to Bob. This one has stag and two handle screws. It's true to the original Archer design, checkered behind the guare, 3/8" thong hole and holes through the guard, except the first ones had three handle screws.

Bob's "Weyer Book" source would be good for the Loveless-style version.

If you'd like to see a nice photo, by the owner, showing some wonderful engraving on some Johnson's you can drop by my "Availables" page at:
www.srjknives.com/srjavail.htm (http://www.srjknives.com/srjavail.htm)

No 'Chute knives there, (shoot!) but it's a nice photo featuring Firmo Fracassi, Pedersoli, Pedini and Steve Lindsay.

Steve, I'll take the credit for everything Bob knows about the web. Even though he learned it all on his own, I'm still willing to take the credit ... :)

However, I'm also willing to take a whoopin, so long as we can get some SRJ's posted around here.

Gene ... I'm telling Pat you were out here dirtying up her image while she wasn't looking ... You don't have to use Pat's good name to get some SRJ tips. :lol:

Alex

GenO Denning has one at his website www.cavemanengineering.com/ (http://www.cavemanengineering.com/)

Steve, I really would like to see one of yours. Does anyone know which Weyer book it's in?

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=955453&a=12129634&p=44120295&Sequence=0&res=high

the one on the far left, is that like a chute knife???

I will scan and post the pic tonight for all the whiners (Alex, Alex, Alex and Alex)!

Taz, that has a sort of clip point, but it doesn't really resemble the RWL, Archer 'Chute. You'll see later tonight, unless you have Weyer's book IV.

The RWL version, made by SRJ, is on the bottom of page 112 of Weyer' Book # IV. However THAT one has a five inch blade, it says, and the real version has a barely, 4 1/2", maybe even 4 3/8", blade.

On the top of that same page, you'll see an authentic Loveless 'Chute, green Micarta and all, in the center of the arrray of knives.

Thanks, Bob, for the photo work.

Ok. I'll sit tight and wait for the pics!

Hang in there, the photo I sent Bob didn't work. I'll try again later.
Sorry!

Here is Steve's Chute knife:
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/bbdogg/images/chute01.jpg

And here are some Loveless knives. The center one is a Loveless Chute:
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/bbdogg/images/love01.jpg

Wow! very nice!! So kinda like a drop point with sharpened back.

Question for Mr Johnson. How do you get the top edge grind to curve into the main grind? Grind the main grind first or after the secondary edge??

It is kind of a drop, I guess, but if you'll look closely, you'll see that the top edge, or clip, is a pretty straight line, not a curved line, as in a drop point.

Actually, I guess I usually grind the bottom first, then the top but it doesn't matter, really. Scribe a line about where you want the top of the grind line to be, and it may come out at the point about 1/8" - 3/16" below the actual point of the knife, and then grind to it. The blend will take care of itself.

However, be careful you don't get the point too thin. If you swing the bottom grind too far up, following, to some degree the curve of the edge, into the point, it'll remove too much metal. Then when you grind the top clip down to where the line was you'll lose too much steel and the point will be too thin.

There's the school that wants a heavy point to withstand heavy work and prying, etc. Also those who like a thinner point for easier cutting/penetration.

This is a survival knife, so I lean toward the heavier point. The customer may have a thought on what he prefers.

You have to make the grinder do what you want it to do, and concentrate, or you'll end up with a point that you hadn't planned on. Of course, you can always make a shorter blade!

Those are real nice....!!! However it is not the one i was thinking of...gotta warm up the scanner and find that pic...was in Blade Magazine some time ago.

Another photo of the "Johnson" Archer 'Chute will be on the way today. The one above is actually a 5" bladed version of the Loveless pattern, which Harry and Bob came up with. The original one has a 4 1/2" blade.

Steve, if you knew how much your knives, especially yours and RWL's Chute knives have influenced me through the years, well its a lot! I am going to grab some paper and start drawing my SRJ influenced Chute knife!

Thanks, Rob. After you get the SRJ 'Chute designed, do an RWL - inspired one, you might be able to SELL some of those!

Hey, wouldn't a Talonite 'Chute be just the thing?

You are a humble man Steve! :)

I'm glad you can tell the difference Steve. :)

I'm glad I got Gene to do the forum by himself while I'm at work. I just forgot to teach him how to logon and left myself logged on by accident.

As soon as I get a handle on making guards, I will definitely have a chute design. They are relatively compact, stout, and an all around excellent working pattern. And they look so good...

Bob, you're right. There really is something intriguing about that 'Chute pattern. Not the least of which are the two men behind it, Harry Archer and R.W. Loveless. Plus the adjectives you used above. It just looks "capable."

I really like the design of the chute knives. It's different. I might play around with a 7" bladed version this summer.

here! now drooooooolll

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=626014&a=4615819&p=22505625&Sequence=0

(I have borrowed the pic from Senator)

That's the pic I was looking for...I couldn't find it. My favorite...

Man ... what a knife!

Alex

:eek:

THAT REALLY IS A GREAT PHOTO.

HOWEVER, IF YOU CAN READ THE CAPTION, IT INDICATES THAT THE KNIFE IS A "JOHNSON" VERSION AND IT ISN'T, IT'S THE "LOVELESS" PATTERN.

NOT BAD STAG, HUH? SOMETIMES THOSE SAMBARS ARE SO GOOD TO US! SURELY DO WISH THEY'D SEND US SOME MORE!

HOPE TO SEND A JOHNSON ARCHER TO BOB SOON SO THAT HE CAN POST IT.

Steve, I'm hoping you send me a Johnson/Archer soon, too;)

Mr. Johnson,
Regardless of who's version it is, your flawless execution of such a difficult pattern is mind boggling. And this may sound funny, but your humble attitude about your tremendous skills make your pieces even more appealing to me.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=955453&a=11486627&p=45174702&Sequence=0&res=high

Does this one look kinda like a chute knife, but bigger?? I know the handle is a different style...

Pretty close. But like you say, the blade is too long.

The clip should be a straight line, which goes back from the point about 2 1/2" on the 4 1/2" blade. See the photos above, for reference.

thats what it is! the clip isn't straight back to the end of the secondary edge! Knew something didn't look right! And yes, I wanted it that big! With my luck, by the time I am done grinding it, it will be 5" long blade!

Mr.Johnson,
I would have to agree with Primos 110%.I have played with that grind.You are way too humble.

Reply from SRJ: (Is it OK to do this?)
As you well know, practice is a lot of it! If you grind enough of one type of blade it becomes easier. However, the NY Special is always a challenge! I can't make my brain even imagine making something like Wolf Loerchner does.

Or, how about a Johnson folder? I've got one almost done that Don Zaccagnino helped me with a few years ago, and I'm too chicken to jump in and finish it and make some more.

Humble might translate into being too comfortable and not daring to get out of that "comfort zone."

Hey, Taz.
Make that knife just like it is. It is not a Chute knife, but it looks like a great fighter. You have to rember, we are defining the chute knife by some pretty narrow standards. When you say you made a chute, someone expects it to look a certain way. What you drew is not a chute knife, but it looks like an excellent fighter.

Yeah Taz ... Chute or not, that's a really cool looking fighter pattern. Stick to it and let's have a look at that baby!

Alex

You know ... a serious collection is not complete without an SRJ in it. I mean, you guy's can debate that all you want, but if someone is trying to build a legendary type of portfolio now days, it has to include at least one SRJ. Without it, it's truly incomplete.

I talked to a man last week ( I won't mention the name ) but, he owns Loveless, Warenski, SRJ and a couple of others that you'd all recognize. His collection is valued at $500,000. This same man said "I've held all the great's work side by side, and SRJ is as good as it get's."

That's from someone who does more than talk ... he owns! Where I come from, that's the man you listen too most!

Alex

Taz,
You know that the next "CKD Fusion Project" will be starting soon!The blade design is in your court this time!
But I am not adding any presure.:evil:

We just mailed a jpg to Mr. Bob of the SRJ Archer 'Chute, so it ought to show up here anytime.

Thanks for the patience, Bob. We're gonna update my scanner pgm. today, maybe that'll help.

(I sent Bob 2 photos that wouldn't open.)

Can Alex remove the "Official Nerd" status he bestowed upon me last year, without a 2/3 majority vote???? Hey, I clicked "send" shouldnt that be all a guy's gotta do to send a photo?

If you want photos, Steve Lindsay just finished working on a pearl-handled "Big Bear and sent me photo, plus a close-up of the guard and sub-hilt.

It's on the way to Bob, and maybe he'll get some time to put it up for us, along with the 'Chute knife.

Sheesh, that Lindsay kid is great! I'm sure the few hrs. he spent in Manti, many years ago, had a lot to do with developing his talent. Great water here!

I agree with you, Steve- Lindsay is about the best engraver on the planet. If you all have not been to his web site, you are missing some serious art. Check it out at www.LindsayEngraving.com. Knock your socks off.

Steve,

All you have to do is save it as a "Bitmap or Jpeg" file once it's scanned and it'll open. The scanner software you have is converting the image to a specialized format that is not very common. Just convert it with the "save-as" and tell it one of the 2 above formats and you'll be good to go.

Alex

BTW - Mark Hazen just listed three of his Chute's on the CKD main site in the Fixed Blades section. Pretty clean little knives.

That feller's amazin', ya gotta admit.

But Julie Warenski www.warenskiknives.com (http://www.warenskiknives.com) (For beautiful work and a cool "Dogget-designed" site) and Firmo Fracassi, and Ron Skaggs, Jon Robyn........well we could go on, are far out too. Don't forget MdKenzie, though, sadly he's gone now, and Winston Churchill.

What a great pleasure and blessing, in my life, to have met and seen the work of so many great artisans.

There's a lot of talent out there.

Here is the Archer-design Chute Knife:
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/bbdogg/ckd/archer.jpg

Look close and you'll see the hole in the bottom guard.

Thanks, Bob for posting this and the Big Bear.

You'll note that the angle of the top clip is more abrupt than the Loveless design and that there is more belly in the bottom cutting edge. Also, the thong tube is 3/8" with checkering on top and bottom tang, behind the guard.

This may have been asked and answered already;Is the 'chute' knife a thin knife or is made of 3/16 or heavier stock?

Also Mr.Johnson,
I would like to ask if you could give us newer/lesser known makers tips on how to keep the grind lines 'so' clean and crisp.The knife you did with Velarde also brings up more questions but they can wait till later.

Thanks in advance,
Mike K

The typical "Chute knife is made of 3/16 stock. However, the 5" Loveless version shown above, with the Mammoth Ivory handles, is 1/4" stock.

3/16 is adequate and Harry didn't want them any heavier than necessary, no need to add more to the weight of the many things the soldier's carrying.

The closer to a polish you can get before buffing, the less "wash-out" of the grind lines you'll have, because you'll do less buffing. It's the buffer that blends the grind lines, as a rule. With the way I polish, the blade is buffed in 1-2 min. (But then the photographer has something to do with how the centerline looks, too. Lighting is a big part of every photo.)

There are hundreds of knifemakers and many of them have their own, somewhat different, polishing technique(s). All of them work, some better than others. You need to try different ideas and see how they work for you.

Thank you very much.Are these grinds normally done with a smaller wheel than a 8 in.?

Originally they, on the SRJ Archer version, were ground on a 3" wheel. I think a 4" wheel would be fine, though. That helps a lot on keeping a crisp-looking centerline. You do have to feather the edge out from the centerline toward the bottom edge, however and be careful that you don't grind too deep with that small wheel near the center of the blade.

One the Loveless Archer version, it was ground with an 8" wheel on the bottom and a 3" wheel on the top clip. This may not be the policy with Bob any more, but that's the way it was, way back when.