I've mentioned before that I was trying out a heat gun for soldering. After using the one that James Poplin so kindly loaned me, I AM SOLD! This is a Milwaukee Model 8975, 11.6 AMP, 570-1000 F. deg. version. The heat is so much more even and the soldering goes so much better, in almost every way, that I wonder why it took so long for me to try it. (Jim suggested it a year or so ago). I guess George Herron has used one for years.

The smoke and fumes are much less. I've yet to burn the flux and the solder fillet is even
smoother.

Now: A hair drier will not work, OK? (They just look like one). I was just kiddin' with the heading up above! Check out a tool, or industrial supply, company catalogue and see what you can find. I see one in MSC's catalogue for $47.75, but it's a 6 AMP model, 570-1050 F. deg. The more expensive 11.6 AMP models are $68 for the 570-1000 F. degree model, to about $100.00 for the 212-1000 F. deg. model. (Don't ask me why the lower temp version is more?). Maybe you can find a better deal out there. There are plenty of suppliers.

Now, to make this work, just as with a torch, you need to know something about soldering; this isn't an "no-look, auto solder" type deal. But, I can almost guarantee you'll like it better than a torch. It is a bit slower, but a lot easier and more enjoyable.

Let me know how you fare, if you try it. You might want to borrow a gun, if possible, before you spring for a new one.

Steve, I bought a Wagoner at Walmart for $22. It is the 750 to 1000 deg model. I forget the amps. I will be trying it out here in a few weeks.

Guy's these heat guns also work to melt the emossing ink used in stamping. My wife is in to that so I had no problem making the purchase.:) :) :)

Great. Anything to save money. You can sometimes get just as good a quality for a lot less, if you use your head and look around. We'll await your report.
Thanks!

Steve,
I tried it last time I did a solder job and didn't have any luck. Maybe I just got impatient because it doesn't seem to be a quick way. Do you point the heat gun directly at the joint? I got nervous with this method because the blade was getting hot when my wet rag wrap started drying out.
I ended up burning klux when I tried it. I have a Wagner hot air gun, supposed to get to 1100 deg..
Jon

I heat the joint just as I do/did with a torch. Clamp the end of the tang in a vise with the point straight up, and/or with the face of the guard horizontal, and apply the heat from underneath the guard, angled toward the joint of the guard/tang. Doing this to both sides and both ends of the guard, trying to heat it up equally.

It'll take longer than with a torch, but, for me at least, it is a lot easier to get and keep the same unform temperature throughout the joint.

Put the flux on first and, as the flux reaches temperature, it'll first crystallize and then melt again, that's when its at the correct temp. No need for a wet cloth if using ATS-34. Possibly with some of the tool steels with a low tempering temperature, but I don't think it'd be problem, since the solder melts at 430 deg. F.

Let me know how it works. Maybe, just as with a torch, there is a learning curve and it'll take some practice and experience before it becomes easier. I'm sorry if I've led you astray. I guess there's the possibility that this will work for some and not for others, just like different polishing techniques are better for one maker than another. We need to get comfortable with a techique before it becomes kind of "natural" for us.

Keep us informed, if you continue to persue it, OK?

Steve,
You didn't lead me astray. Just like any other step in knifemaking, TAKES PRACTICE!!!! I forge 5160 exclusively right now so the wet rag or heattrap paste is a must for me. Thanks for the reply, I'll definately keep trying this method.
Jon

OK Steve, after all these years I'm going to give it a try. I solder 416 guards to ATS-34 blades for the
most part, and often tin the guard first to get flow through- sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
work so great.

I got some of the 35.00 paste solder that was mentioned and perhaps you could answer a few questions
and save me some trial and error (notice I didn't say "save me some grief"- there's always enough of
that to go around when soldering stainless so I'm sure it can't be avoided altogether no matter what
method we use):

Do you coat the inside of the guard with the solder paste before putting in place. or just apply paste
to the joint when heating ?

Once soldering temperature is reached, do you supplement the joint with more paste or solid wire
solder, and if wire, is it standard 435 degree silver solder ?

I assume the flux in the paste mixture is enough flux for the job and no additional flux is used ?

Because the heat gun takes longer to reach temperature, do you have a problem with the flux fumes etching the blade in front of the guard ?

What is your favorite prep cleaner prior to soldering ?

I'll think of more questins later, I'm sure.

Thanks,

Schuyler

Hey Guys
Has anyone tried TIX solder? I got some from Uncle Al at the Fall '99 Hammer-In and have used it since. It melts at 275 degrees and has a bond strength of 4000psi. I was having problems with the 430 degree stuff on forged 5160 blades. I have been using a torch up until know with mixed results but will be getting a heat gun to try out. The low melt temp with the even heating of the heat gun may be just the ticket.
I will keep everyone posted.
Scott

Hi, Schuyler.
Welcome to the forums. Nothing gets by me:) I know you have some nice knives, so don't be afraid to enter them in our world famous (almost) photography contest with billions of dollars in prizes and accolades throughout the ages...or just for the fun of it.

Schuyler: In regards to your questions:

Do you coat the inside of the guard with the solder paste before putting in place. or just apply paste to the joint when heating ?

I do coat the inside of the guard and the blade area under the guard before assembly.

Once soldering temperature is reached, do you supplement the joint with more paste or solid wire solder, and if wire, is it standard 435 degree silver solder ?

I use standard Eutectic 157 solder. You can probably use whatever solder you're using regularly

I assume the flux in the paste mixture is enough flux for the job and no additional flux is used ?

You will probably have to use more Eutectic 682 flux. Or your regular flux.

Because the heat gun takes longer to reach temperature, do you have a problem with the flux fumes etching the blade in front of the guard ?

No, I believe the etching comes, mostly, from too much heat/burning of the flux. Since the heat is much more controllable withe the gun, I see less of a problem with etching. I am, however, fairly new at this heat gun technique, also, you know.

What is your favorite prep cleaner prior to soldering ?

Acetone.

Hope this of help. good luck and give it a chance. Watch the flux closely and you can see the transition phases, from liquid to crystalline back to liquid, when it reaches temperature.

I still don't think you'll get a perfect flow-through, but there's a lot more solder in there than when you don't use the paste.

However, we run the risk of trapping more flux inside, also. Boil the blades/guards in soapy water, (dish soap) with some baking soda added, for 3-5 min, after soldering. I know this helps, some.

Let us know how it goes, OK? (Unless it goes very badly, then be kind, OK?)

I haven't used "Tix" but I'm sure someone out there has.

Any input n this idea?

The main reason I went to Tix is the lower tempering temp of the steels I use 5160 and 1084. Since I'm using the solder to seal the joint and not try to hold the guard on it works better for me with the lower heat. Another plus is that it does not tarnish. Thanks for all the heat gun info. I'm looking at a tool catalog now trying to decide on what model. The variable temp Milwaukee looks promising.
Thanks
Scott

Don't overlook the Wal-Mart version, for about $20, by Wagner.

I've got one and will be trying it out this week. Will report.

The Milwaukee works great.

Got one too Steve, have had it for years and it will work, they will hit 1000 degrees according to the paperwork that comes with them, they just don't have the air flow that the bigger units have.
Mike

Steve,

I will be interested in the results of your comparison test between the two hairdriers, oops, heat guns. I know the temperature is the same between the two models, however, I'm wondering if the difference in airflow/volume will make much difference as to how fast it will heat the joint, etc.

I don't want to waste the money on the Wagner, for ex., if I will have to buy the Milwaukee anyway. So- work hard all weekend and let us know !

Thanks again,

Schuyler

The Wagner works fine.

I soldered two, 1/4" thick, dirk blades and the one where I used the Wagner took 8 min to finish. The Milwaukee took 6 min. I did use a nozzle on the Wagner for the first 3-4 min, which wouldn't allow me to get as close to the guard/tang as when I took it off.

So.....I think that the time would be quite close, if both were used without the nozzle. The Milwaukee doesn't really sound like it puts out much more volume, maybe slightly.

However, I'd assume that a gun that costs 3-4 times as much as the other ought to last longer. But.....you can buy 3-4 as they wear out for the same price....

I'll be soldering some more this next week and will report more on this highly scientific experiment.

Nice solder joints, if I do say so myself! (He's so humble!) Really, though, they do seem to be a bit smoother than when a torch is used. There is definately less smoke, less etching, less burning, more control of heat application---in my opinion.

After soldering two New York Specails, I do believe that the Milwaukee is a bit faster, at least the tang seemed to heat up quicker, intitially. However, the overall time spent soldering the two ferrules was very close.

It's a toss up. If you have the money get the more expensive one, whatever the brand. I'm going to keep the less expensive one and I don't think I'll be disappointed.

Used my wagoner today and 20 minutes later I had the joint all cleaned up and ready for polishing. The time difference between the torch and heat gun has not noticible to me. I use a cool flame I guess. Clean up was where I was really impressed!

No more torches for me!!

Interesting....... I was jsut gazing at my torch today and wondering why I have it. But then there is always this, or that, part that needs to be heated, or bent, or melted, etc. Don't guess a gun would work with hard solder!!

I'm glad you're happy with it. I'm sure each maker will have a different idea of why a heat gun is better, or worse than a torch, or an iron, or whatever. Never hurts to try a new idea.

Thanks for the report!

Soldered three guards last night, late, and not a single one of them cooperated! Finally got the joints to look OK, but for some reason they just wouldn't flow smoothly and each one took a lot of fiddling to ge them to look decent.

Not going back to the torch, yet! I'll try two more today and see if it was just the phase of the moon, or something. I know, I'll blame it on the humidity, we're at about 20% lately, I'd guess. Yeah, that must be it.....must press on.

Interesting experiment. I just became aquainted with those fiery old heat guns, and they really do throw some heat. ANYTHING to help a poor boy solder! I will definitely be trying it out. The potential for cutting down on clean-up time is obvious.

Corey Smith
coreysmith@smithandboltonknives.com

My two guards yesterday went much better than those just reported. Don't know what made the difference. Maybe it's these late, pre-Guild Show, nights that I'm working. Maybe it's just, like with anything new, one has to learn al lthe little in's and out's of the process. Persistancy pays off, generally.

I did have a hard time keeping the 1/4" "Chute up to temperature, however. Maybe the larger capacity heat gun would do a better job at that. Something to consider, if you want to go another $40-50.00.

MSC had a Milwaukee in their last catalogue at about $64 or $69.00, as I recall. Much more output than the one I got from Wal-Mart.