James and Kay Poplin were just here last week and we discussed tapering a tang. He was also successful in bagging a 6 point bull elk up in the mtns. north east of here. Any good pointers out there? (On tapering tangs, that is...).

I guess my main point would be to make sure the tang has been hollowed out in a plane, or line, from the guard to the tapered thickness, about 1/16", at the end of the tang. Just like grinding a blade, only down the center of the handle to remove a lot of the bulk of the steel in the middle of the tang.

Then on to the platen, which may require some more hollowing out of the tang as you are working and the flattened edges of the tang creeep in toward the center as you flatten it.

Next to the disk, after grinding the hollow out, again, to within about 1/8" of the edge of the tang after the work is done on the platen. This hollowing out makes it so that you aren't trying to flatten out the whole width of the tang, just the edges. Much quicker, cooler and more efficient this way. Don't grind clear through the center of the tang!

You don't need a push stick, just one glove. Sometimes I cut the end of a finger of an old glove off and add it to the inside thumb of the left hand glove that I'm using to push the tang against the platen and disk .

Use good, sharp belts and dip in water often and it won't get too hot. Also, make sure you wipe the water off the tang after each dipping, otherwise, the thumb of the glove will get wet and when the tang gets hot, so does the water and it turns to steam. THEN it gets WAAAAYYYYY too hot!!

I took some photos today, to illustrate these points, and will fwd. them to Bob to add to this thread, when he has time.

Good advise Steve,
Especially the importance of hollowing out the tang. Makes for less material to remove as you are tapering and helps to keep the flats even. Sharp belts and paper on the disk grinder are also very important as you've mentioned.
I'll add something that I've found helpful.
When I use the disk sander I always place the tang on the disk before starting it and shut it off before removing it, letting it come to a full stop. I can avoid scratching/beveling the edge of the tang this way.
Jon

Interesting concept, Jon. I'll give it a try, although I don't seem to have too much trouble putting the tang and blade to the disk. I'm disking some tangs today and will apply your technique.

Thats the way I do them also,with the addition of scribing parallel lines around the tang,the same tool you mark your blade centerlines with.Gives me something to go by.I'm sure you do the same and just left it out of the description.;)

Steve
I used to have a hard time getting the taper to move up both side of the handle at the same time. In other words an even grind.....I found that if you have a faily good drop in the grip it was hard to keep the tang grind even....applying side preasure and rotating the blade back an forth on the platen. I solved this problem by tapering the tang while it was still in the bar configuration....tapering the tang before the knife was cut out. I still use this method and it works on either the Bader flat platen or my 12 disc sander. On the disc sander I mount the blade to 2" x 2" bar of steel and set the table of the disc sander to square zero and grind away. The 2" x 2" bar will give you more control and slides well on the table. I use all the aforemention process...hollow grinding the handle and scibing the lines...all this helps. Grinding the full bar to a taper uses up the same number of belts and it seems to be easier to control.
I found that after grinding a few hundred of these tapers you finally get the hang of it. This process works well on 1/8" stock, 1/4" and even 5/32.
Steve, I don't know about you, but once everything is set up I can taper a tang ( on a good belt) in about 5 minutes or less. I always try to have 4 or 5 knives to taper.....saves time and energy. I once saw George Herron taper some blades and made it look easy....lets face it, he showed Moses how to do it.

Jim

Good comments on the scribing. I did leave that out, it was pretty late when the, "urge to post," hit me.

Along that line: I scribe the parrallel center lines and then grind a sharp bevel to the lines at the end of the tang, just like I do when I'm preparing to grind a blade. This will give you a guide and indicator that will tell you when you're approaching the final thickness at the end of the tang.

Jim, I've never thought of, or even heard, of that full bar technique. I'll be sure to give it a try soon. It makes sense and I could certainly use it now and then on a radically dropped handle. In fact I just laid out a blade today with a drop in the handle and this will be an ideal time to give your idea a try. Do you attach the knife steel to the 2" x 2" steel bar with screws, through the handle screw holes, or glue it on somwhow? Intrigueing idea.

Yes, 5 min. is adequate to taper a tang, assuming that you're working with a good sharp belt and sand paper. (That's after the half a day it takes me to actually START tapering tangs. I'd rather do other things, most of the time). Speaking of which: I use "Wet or Dry" carbide paper. Have wondered about PSA discs, but never given them a try. Any thoughts on them, or other types of abrasives for the disk sander? PSA's always seemed so expensive, however, the 120X Wet/Dry I bought today ran almost $1 each!

Thank you, and everyone, for sharing your "secrets" so generously.

Steve
When using the 2"x2" steel bar (same length at the knife your going to cut out) before tapering....I position the holes where the rivits are going and index of those holes with 3/16 pins. When the bar is reversed for the other side....use the same holes. I have it designed so that the pins are inserted deep enough in the steel bar so that they are stable and can be remove. The 2x2 bar allows for more holding power and stability during the tapering process. I have used a stick and found it a little hard on the disc....I use the stick on the Bader.

Jim

Thank you, Jim.

I'm excited to try your method. I wonder, is the stick necessary what with that big block of steel backing up the knife blank material? Or is "the stick" used for something other than prevention from getting too hot on the fingers/

Just wondering...

Steve
I only use the 2x2 bar of steel when I taper on the disc grinder simply because it has the wide cast iron table. I have found it to be difficult to hold the blade blank or bar in the horizontal position....so I mount it to the 2x2 bar of steel. As for the stick...probably no different from you....there is a 1/8 pin driven into the stick....a 1/8 in hole drilled into the tange of the blank....this to hold the bottom the bar to the flat platten of my Bader. I use it because as you have alluded too....the blade blank can get very hot. I probably need to do the picture thing....if folks are interested. A couple of photos should tell the whole story. I this the right place (sight) to do this.

Note. I have know other makers to use the mill to taper tangs. Set up takes a while and the milling process takes a good bit of time. An old knifemaker by the name of Ron Hewitt use to use an attachment on his mill with an inverted cone stone....medium speed...it would take off the metal but it was darn messy and was not good for the machine( a lot of dust and grit)....mucho clean up especially with the coolant. He also used a complicated sine bar set up.....seem to be to much effort for what he wanted to accomplish....even though he had perfect tapers.
Jim

Steve, I used to use wet-or-dry silicone carbide paper on the disk sander, but found I wore it out or tore it in a New York minute. The PSA disks are a little more $ initially, but the last a whole lot longer, and they don't tear. I highly recommend them.

Here is a link to a place where you can get the PSA disc for less that $1 each.
www.geocities.com/discoun...es/DA.html (http://www.geocities.com/discount_abrasives/DA.html)
Mike

Thanks, Jim. You might try the tapering without the stick, it really works fine if the belts are sharp and you dip in water often., not getting the thumb of the glove wet. There is more control over what the tang is doing that way.

However, if you're tapering the whole bar, the stick may be the way to go, since it's just a straight tpaer.

Thanks, Don. I'll definately give the PSA disks a try. I generally don't have a problem with tearing, but the wet/dry doesn't really last that long. Thanks for the advise, info. and the link.

Steve,I forgot one thing,I made a push stick out of a piece of broomstick,drilled an appropriate sized hole for a good sized nail dead center.When tapering tangs,I put the nail in the thong hole,nail is quickly ground to all that is necessary.If I am not using a thong hole,I drill a 1/8-3/16" hole in the tang,about one inch up from the end of the tang,and centered,the stick/nail work well to hold the tang on the platen while giving me plenty of control.The nail does not affect the belt at all.

That ought to do the job just fine; quick and inexpensive. I've seen guys turn out a handle on the lathe with a removeabel pin, held in with a set screw. You can do lots of things if you put your mind to it, just so it works for you.

Thnk you for sharing your idea and experience.

First time in this part of the forums. Gotta love the internet. It's mind blowing to me to think even Steve Johnson puts off tang tapering day.

My contribution is, I hollow grind, then taper on the flat platten of the belt grinder using a push stick. I use the disk just to refine the taper. I have stopped using wet or dry in the coarser grits though. I always hated how poorly the S/C cut. I've been using Norton Champagne AO paper. It is coated bodyshop paper, but the coating doesn't gum up like Carborundum or the stupidly overpriced 3M. The backing and glue hold up to getting wet. Costs like wet or dry, but I find it cuts better.

Welcome fellow tang taperer, Mike. We ought to get together and put off tapering tangs for a few hrs. someday, huh?

Thanks for the tip on the paper, I'll try it.

Some years ago I found a product that made flatting steel and tapering tangs much easier for me. It may not work for all of you but I will share it with you anyway.
First of all I profile my blade design,drill and ream all holes,then with a 2" or 3" wheel I hollow grind the tang up almost to where the guard will be fitted. I tried Jims way of grinding a full piece of bar stock but it presented more problems than it solved. Drilling holes after tapering the tang since the holes should be at 90 degrees. If you don't lay out your blades with the rear most edge in the center ,your taper will be offset. The thing that makes my tapering simpler is my hand magnet!!!! It has a 100 lb. pull and the size is 5/8" wide and 4 1/2 " long x 2" deep equipped with a handle. I simply pop the blade on the magnet and take it to the Bader platen running at 6000 surface feet per minute and with a 40 grit belt you can have one side of a tang tapered in 2 or 3 minutes. I hold the tip of the blade in the vertical position and apply pressure to the tang with my right hand. adjustment to the grind can be adjusted with either hand by manipulating the angle or pressure. after a few tries it will become simple and you will throw away all of those dangerous push sticks. The magnet comes encased in a stainless steel frame so if it starts to get hot just dunk it in a water bucket. I sell these magnets for $12.50 plus shipping if anyone is interested. If you don't think it is the best thing you have bought lately simple return it at my expense and you wont be out any thing-----------------Rade

Rade
There might be some misunderstanding on my tapering the tang on the whole bar before cutting the blade out. I only do this because most of my knives have alot of drop to the handle. I do all the necessary hole drilling before tapering after deeply scribeing the blade design in the ( surface ground )bar of steel. I have found that with a crows beak at the end of the handle causes some problem when trying to keep the taper grind horizontal across the width of the handle.....using the whole width of the steel bar ( for me) gives me more control. I actually use a 5 inch wheel to do the hollow grind down the middle of the handle....this seem to work very well. When I am finished with the taper I use the previously dirlled rivit holes to index the original ( hardened) template back onto the blade and re-scribe the blade and then to the band saw to cut it out. All of my blade design templates are made from hardend D-2. I use them for drill guides and for scribing. If my designs don't have must drop to the handle and the handle is in alignment with the center of the blade and blade edge, then I use the much the same method everyone else uses. As for using the magnet....I have never tried that ....It sound like it would work very well. I have use a push stick method since the very beginning and that works well for me. I have seen your tapers and they are very well exicuted........you could say perfect. Thanks for your help the other day.......
Jim

Jim I didn't mean to knock your process but it just didn't work for me. Nothing works for everyone. Ill be glad to send you one of the magnets and let you try it. It works for so many things I even use it for a quick rip guid on my band saw, picking up small metal objects-even under water. Thank you for the compliment on my tangs-----your tangs loog good to
Rade

Good idea, guys. Sounds lik it'd work very well.