I'm curious as to how many of you have actually carried knives in combat and which knives you found most useful.

I served as a mech inf platoon leader and a combined recon-intel (CRIP) platoon leader with the 25th Inf Div in Vietnam in 1968-69. When I got my orders for Vietnam I'd never heard of Randall but went to jungle warfare school in Panama before going over and one of the instructors had a nice small Randall. I'm not sure which model but probably a Model 3 or 5.

When I got back to the States, I called Randall but even though they gave priority to military orders, I only had a few days before leaving for Nam and it wasn't enough time to get one. I went to the local hardware store and bought a 5 or 6 inch Case - maybe a Model 119 but I don't really remember. It was carbon steel with a black handle and crow's beak butt cap. Anyway, I carried it my entire tour and used it daily. I also had a mid-sized, lock-blade folding knife but don't remember which one, probably another Case or a Buck.

Most infantrymen I knew over there carried similar, fairly small production knives. I never saw anyone carry a Randall and suspect that most were owned by senior officers and NCO's stationed in rear areas and never saw much time in the field. I did see a few Gerbers and Pumas in the field.

Based on my own experience and observations, I'd say that the most useful carry knife in combat is a fairly small, lightweight knife with a sturdy blade. Of the Randall models, I'd probably go for a 5 or 6 inch Model 3 or 5 with a carbon steel blade which is easier to sharpen under field conditions. In my opinion, the big Randall 7 and 8 inch fighting knives are too heavy and awkward for an infantryman to carry and to use under normal field conditions.

Notice I say a combat knife, not a fighting knife. I can barely imagine a combat circumstance when I'd actually need a knife for fighting. If it ever came down to close combat with cold steel (perish the thought), I'd rather have an entrenching tool than any knife.

Well, I haven't been in combat but if I were I think I'd carry my model 15 that I had custom made by Randall back in the mid 90's. It is the one on top.

http://home.comcast.net/~kubelkagels/r_2.JPG

That's a sweet looking Model 14 and the saw teeth would certainly be useful. My knife didn't have them and I can think of occasions when I could have used them.

Hi Jim,

My experience paralleled yours pretty closely. I was drafted in '67 and spent a year with the 9th Infantry Division in the delta. Knives had been a big part of my life up until then and I wasn't going over without one. The only thing I knew about Randall at the time was that they made a 6" hunting knife because my Dad had owned one for a long time. I didn't want to take the chance of losing it, so I bought and carried a 6" Schrade Old Timer. It served me well, although I never needed to use it in hand-to-hand combat. I never saw (noticed) a Randall while I was over there either, but at the same time I didn't go out of the way to look for anyone carrying one. I agree with you about the blade length and model: If I had to do it all over again, it would be a 3-6 with double hilt.

Best,

Ron

Thank God we don't have to do it again, but I'll go along with your choice - maybe with custom sawtheeth, if available on that model.

Thank God we don't have to do it again.

Amen!

....My combat experience is a lot different and less intense than what you OLD guys experienced. I was in army flight school getting ready to go to Vietnam when we pulled US troops out of there. I bought my Solingen 14 a few years later when I was getting ready to go to Korea. I carried it either on my flight vest or in my helmet bag for three tours in Korea and around the Caribean and Central America later. I used it quite a bit as a "camp" knife in the field but it was always more blade than the job really required. I did not get into combat until Just Cause in Panama and Desert Storm in Iraq. A 7.5 inch blade was way bigger than what I really needed. If I was going back I would take a Model 15 or perhaps a 5 inch Model 1 or a combat companion or maybe even a Fireman. I did see a few Randalls during my time in the Army. Most soldiers did not know about or could not afford Randalls. The ones that I saw were mostly either carried by aviators or special forces.
jc

edited to add. Yes I do thank God that I don't HAVE to do it again but I do have a strong feeling sometimes that I should be over there.

Interesting insights gentlemen.

Thank you all for your service.

I was 11-B in the Army National Guard from 1983-1991 but the only desert I ever saw was at the National Training Center in CA.

The late Gib Guinard (Cactusforge) made a really nice combat knife for an army captain heading off to Afghanistan. You can read about the captain's comments here: http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26758

The same captain commissioned a push knife and a combat knife, made by Chris Daigle and Don Halter, respectively:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32986

Don's knife incorporated many of the changes that were recommended from the excellent knife that Gib made (which is now hanging on a wall). Both Don's and Chris' knives, along with another made by Stan Buzek (and presented to an NCO by the captain), are serving in Afghanistan at this time.

Interesting post by CPT JIM. Thanks for the link. I notice that the knife he had made had an 8 1/2 inch blade. After using it in the field, he says that one of the things he'd change if he had another knife made is to reduce the blade length to no more than six inches.

I guess the real reason for starting this thread was because I've always felt that the 7 and 8 inch blade military knives which seem to be so popular among collectors are too big and heavy to carry in the field under combat conditions. So far, it looks like most other posters agree.

I'm also interested in opinions about tool steel vs. stainless. I've already said I prefer tool steel. Does anyone else have a strong preference for one over the other?

Both of the capt.'s combat knives were made of 5160. The first thing the more recent knife was used for is opening an ammo box. He told us that he frequently ripped off door hinges with the knife. The most interesting thing he pointed out - and something very much overlooked by most - is that edge retention is not as important as strength. He had seen many commercial knives - including some very expensive ones - snap off under the kind of misuse that happens under combat conditions. (When you gotta free that .50 cal bolt and all you've got is the knife, that's what will do the work!) Differentially heat treated 5160 is pretty tough stuff and yet reasonable to sharpen and good at edge retention. The push knife is O-1, also not a slacker when it comes to strength. A good silicone cloth keeps the rust problem to a minimum. 5160 has been referred to as "Old Chevy spring" and O-1 is often used in oil drilling tools.

That's not to discount stainless, but rather to point out that the desired overall design encompasses the non-stainless steels as well.
:fencing:

My time in Vietnam was different than some of you. I was a mechanic with the First Marine Air Wing. I was issues a Camillus electrician's knife with a drop point blade and a liner locking screw driver blade w/ wire stripper. I used it daily as a screw driver, wire stripper and the knife cut anything that needed cutting. I made a crude belt sheath from a leather belt and leather boot laces. I carried it my whole time in the Marine Corps and brought it home with me when I was med-evaced. I still have it today and it is still shaving sharp.
I think a knife is a tool and you must have the right tool for the job. My Camillus was the right tool for my job. Thank God I didn't have to use it for hand to hand combat (Thank Go I didn't see hand to hand combat).
I agree with jim4351, if I have to go into hand to hand combat, I want an E-tool. I have heard it said that E-tools killed more Germans in WWII than K-bars. What a great little tool & versatile!

Dale

Dale,
...I have heard the same thing about the WWII lethality of entrenching tools. I am wondering if the E-tool was invented sometime between WWI and WWII?
jc

I am not sure when it was invented, but it I had to guess I would say probably between WWI & WWII.

This article does not say when the e-tool was invented, but it's a very informative read on trench warfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare#Weapons_of_trench_warfare

It seems from the article that they had some sort of entrenching tool in WWI. Maybe not the same as they had in WWII and we had in Vietnam, but some sort of short handled shovel.
Great article, tunefinK.

Thanks,
Dale

I have a little time so I thought I would reminisce about my enlistment in 1968.

Tried for the Marines in '66 but flunked the physical, bad leg. While in college the long haired hippy pukes aggravated me, but the professors pi**ed me off big time. After being re-examined by the US Navy, a nice black doctor saw I really wanted in so he waved me.

I looked at a bunch of Randalls at the gun shop. I bought a model 2 7 " blade for $45.00 They had soligen #14 for a tad more. A Randall 14 was $58.00 or $60.00. I bought a Hibben "Parker" combat, for $72.50, it was much sleeker and prettier than a model 14.:)

While in survival school, I didn't want to loose a custom knife, I used the issue pilot survial knife. I found it pretty useless building a shelter or gutting fish. I had my Buck 110 and it work a heck alot better on the fish. When I found out one of the other Team guys brought a KaBar, I waited in line for the oppurtunity to use it to fashion poles, dig, and hammer with it. A knife shorter than 7 inches isn't much of a knife for survival work. A khukuri or machete are kings.

I took my Hibben's with me on one deployment, and the heavy knife became a pass around knife too. My model 2 never left my side. It had two razor sharp edges. One was used for cutting chores but one edge was never used for anything but for the serious stuff if needed.

Yes my hunting knives are small but my outdoor surrvival knives are BIG. I sold my 2 knives in '74 but bought back my model 2. It has too many memories. My son has it now, with the rest of my military junk.:smokin