I meant to post a happy birthday salute to the day William Wales Scagel was born. February 12th. It slipped my mind with the news that it was also the day of Bill Moran's passing. How ironic that the same day one of our greats came into this world is the same day that another great man passes.

Anyone have any pics of favorite Scagel or Moran knives original or homage to share?

That's quite a coinscidence! I have quite a few Scagle photo's, but not that many Morans. I'll get something posted this evening. Mr. Scagel must have been born in the 1870's or 80's.
I'm courious as to what impact Mr. Morans death will have on the knifemaking/collecting world. When something like this happens to a major mover and shaker, it generates shock waves that resonate all throughout the knife community. It also means that the chance of every purchasing an original of either one is now pretty much gone for a lot of us.

A Moran knife has been out of my price range for many years:eek: Still it has not stopped me from admiring pics, particularly the silver inlay on maple. While Moran made some beautiful art knives, one that I really like is a small coffin bowie he talks about in this interview for knifeart.com. His statement that "I wanted my knives to cut real well" always stuck out for me. This simple, yet beautiful EDC he said he had carried for the last few years, I have often wondered about. Whether he had eventually sold it and who owns it now.
Moran interview (http://www.knifeart.com/inwitbilmorb.html)
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/moran_coffin_bowie.jpg

Here is a little collage I made a while back. A non knife friend from out of state clipped the obit and sent it to me.
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/Moran4.jpg

wow, that is freaky, man...! i wonder what kind of knives THOSE TWO are making in heaven !

You can be sure they're checking out the pearly gates, analyzing the type of steel that's in it. Nice collage Roc. I had never seen that particular knife that I remember, and looking at that sheath, I think I would have remembered. I like the tip on the sheath. I wonder why he didn't put some kind of guard on his little coffin Bowie? Seems you could mess up a index finger pretty good if you slipped while cutting something. You have any other photos on it Roc? Buddy probably has it <G>

I had read in one of Bill Morans books that early on, his inspiration for making knives was the Persian style blades. The inlay and the damaskus surely crossed over to his other patterns.

Now if he put a guard on that, it would not be called a guardless coffin now would it? haha. I have several and have never once slipped a finger on to the blade. None of my skinners have guards on them and I have had them slicker than a minnow. I think the waist in the handle makes up for the guard. Having a guard to get tangled on a boot knife might well get you killed. Ed fowler noted a couple weeks back that alot of the old bowies that appear "used", had severely cutback or tipped guards on them. Hmmm, makes you wonder. I guess we tend to confuse knife fighting with fencing.
I don't think Moran was opposed to guards, just depended on appilcation I guess.
Moran's first cattaloge
http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/MoranKnives1.jpg

Bill Moran 1982
http://neveryetmelted.com/wp-images/WmFMoran1.jpg
pic sourse(clickhere) (http://neveryetmelted.com/?cat=312)

Guardless coffin eh? Well, I suppose your right there! Do you have the deminsions on it, and if it's a tapered tang? I think I'll russel me up a couple of those with burled Mesquite handles and 52100 so I can get a first hand feel of the knife. Roc did it show a sheath?

In the old catalog, I LOVE that #10, but don't know about the #14.

Sorry Robert. That is the only pic of that knife I have. I asked around a bit about it in other threads but no one seems to know who owns it. I got the pic from the link I posted in #3. Here is another pic, a then and now of a couple of my favorite guys. Anybody know anyone in these pics?
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/Lloyed_Hale_and_Bill_Moran2.jpg

I am afraid I miss quoted Ed Fowler a little. Maybe he will show up and set me straight. :fencing:

Many makers of knives have never had to use one extensively. That is why some knives with guards that would be very unfriendly to the hand of the user have had the guards reshaped. Not to minimize the effectiveness of the guard, but to make it more friendly to the hand that holds it.

I have held knives that had guards so sharp they would peel paint, many of these are replicas of the Sheffield bowies. The Bowie was the hula hoop of the 17th century, many of them were poorly designed for a lot of use, but looked great to the man who simply wanted to be a player in the fad. They were not bad knives, they served to comfort the man who simply wanted a Bowie.

The design and construction of the guard is one attribute that provides a clue to either the maker's or one time owners knowledge and competance.

The above in naturally my opinion.

Thanks for the invite!

Hey Roc,
I,m not sure if thats the last one he was carrying....last year at the last Moran hammer in he had a nice little intragal with a roundish handle and some silver wire inlay. It was a nice knife and I have wondered what happend to it. It's my hope that he still has it with him.
I want one of mine when I go.

Nice tribute Roc.



My last aprentice knife was Moran inspired.
Mace

http://www.fototime.com/EACF776730203D1/orig.jpg

Roc.
There is a lot of tallent in that Persian knife you furnished a photo of. The more I look at it, the better I like it. One very nice package by a great maker.

I love that knife Mace. It is going in my folder of all time favorite Knet knife pics. A stunning little gent. Simple and elegant.

Ed, that persian has grown on me also. The pattern seems to have a good ballance between slicer/slasher, sticker. Combining those three to good effect is quite a trick.

Robert, how about a mesquite sheath with a little silver inlay and throat hardware, ala Micheal Price.

Here is Morans own sketch of his persian with dimensions.
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/Moran_Persian_sketch.jpg

A Moran knife has been out of my price range for many years:eek: Still it has not stopped me from admiring pics, particularly the silver inlay on maple. While Moran made some beautiful art knives, one that I really like is a small coffin bowie he talks about in this interview for knifeart.com. His statement that "I wanted my knives to cut real well" always stuck out for me. This simple, yet beautiful EDC he said he had carried for the last few years, I have often wondered about. Whether he had eventually sold it and who owns it now.
Moran interview (http://www.knifeart.com/inwitbilmorb.html)
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/moran_coffin_bowie.jpg

I do believe I saw that knife in Rhett Stidham's (sp? w/apologies) showcase at the show here in NYC last spring.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/ebbtide/BMoransknife.gif
He said it was Moran's personal carry piece.
IMHO, just about purrrrrrrfect.
I admit to a huge weakness for guardless coffin handled bowies ;)

Thanks for sharing that photo Ebb. I gotta get off my butt and finish my copy. I bought a few of these Lee Olsen 1095 blanks to make a set of coffin handled steak knives.
https://home.comcast.net/~tattooroc/coffin_Olsen_Moran.jpg

That would be a great tatoo Roc!

Sorry I haven't jumped in on this thread until now but I'll add what I can. There doesn't seem to be much connection between Scagel and Moran in terms of style and influences. One could speculate but that's all it would be. I see them as somewhat separate 'trunks' of the modern handmade knife tree. Each has become associated with a phenomenon that is too narrow to encompase the scope of their work; Scagel with Randall Made Knives and Moran with Bowie knives and Damascus steel. Then there's Loveless as another trunk of the tree. This is a very artificial metaphor though because the history of the knife is such that everything came from something that came before it, so on and so forth, around and around etc.

I do have some interesting pictures I can add even if I can't add much else. Here is the Moran knife I wrote about in the July 2006 issue of BLADE. I had originally titled the article "A Moran Blade - 35 year long-term road test" but the editor changed it to something else. BR Hughes is holding the knife for me - those are his hands (very distinctive) and I motion-blurred the background to create a title page opportunity for the editor. Turned out kind of neat, IMO.
http://www.fototime.com/55330FB145EBF70/orig.jpg

The snapshot below was taken by BR Hughes of me with Bill Moran autographing a picture of the last blade Bill ever forged - a carbon steel blade that the ABS Mastersmiths then on the board finished off for auction at the BLADE show two years ago. I got it for a ridiculously low price (compared the the Damascus blade auctioned this past June that brought 37.5K - a blade Bill forged some 5 years or so before his death but definitely the last Damascus blade he ever forged.) When I won the knife in the picture I didn't know it was Bill's last blade. That came out later in a discussion with Jay Hendrickson who is now executor of Bill's estate. BTW, all of Bill's effects, including his personal belt knife mentioned above are going into a museum with planning currently under way. I'm blessed to have gotten to know Bill Moran a little bit at least, and naturally proud to own the last blade ever forged by him. Ironically (and predictably, given the vagaries of human nature) conflicting reports exist about what exactly was the last Moran-forged blade. I bought the blade not knowing its history and status and thus I don't plan to involve myself in those kinds of discussions. I predict that many "last" Moran blades will appear, for example, on eBay in the years to come as dollar-driven people attempt to plunder his good name for profit.
http://www.fototime.com/9CD955DE9AD78A1/orig.jpg

And finally, here are three pictures of a really super Moran blade auctioned at the ABS Reno Show two years ago for 15K. Jason Knight was the custodian so to speak, bidding on behalf of an absentee buyer. It's a beautiful knife, to be sure.
http://www.fototime.com/C40387D715FCEEF/orig.jpg

I think Bill Moran will always be remembered for, among other things, his shapely, highly figured Maple handles with silver wire inlay.
http://www.fototime.com/EF72B47E73321E3/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/FD7C98938E2F6FE/orig.jpg

I have many 'favorite' Scagel blades (pictures of Scagel blades I should clarify) but the big one below is certainly near the top of the list. It belongs to an annonymous person but will definitely be featured in Jim Lucie's Scagel book which is now in the works. This is a large knife and the fully sharpened double edge with its beautiful curves is "so Willie" (that's what Scagel's father called him - 'Willie'). I've showed this blade to several accomplished bladesmiths and all (so far) have shrunk from the challenge of duplicating it! Can't say I blame them!
http://www.fototime.com/0598A7FE3A576E2/orig.jpg

Robert, how about a mesquite sheath with a little silver inlay and throat hardware, ala Micheal Price.[/QUOTE]

Sure Roc, I'd try it one of these days. What kind of throat hardware you talking about? Can you send me a sketch?

Robert, I was thinking something like this with wood replacing the leather, maybe a little shooting star inlay. Frog optional.
http://www.arkansashistory.com/images/gallery/ham_gal_knife06.jpg

Great pics Buddy! Love that Scagel.

Regarding the price paid for that last Moran damascus blade...I tought it sold for 10k more.for a total of 37,500. BIG bucks either way.



FYI, The bowie I posted I call "Wicked Willie" A name my father called me when I was young. My first name is William.
Mace

Thanks for pointing out my error, Mace. You are quite right and I've edited my post above to reflect the correct amount.

Great post Buddy. Thanks for sharing that.

Buddy said: "I've showed this blade to several accomplished bladesmiths and all (so far) have shrunk from the challenge of duplicating it! Can't say I blame them"





Rocker said: See, therein lies the problem, you keep showing it to "accomplished bladesmiths"! They know better. They know they can't recreate each and every part of that Scagel knife.
I, on the other hand, am not "accomplished", and don't know any better, therefore I'd be happy to give it a try:)

All these knives are great! I keep checking out that Scagel......he must have felt real good when he finnished that one....I love the guard.
Buddy, Can you get a tracing of this knife?
Mace


Oh yeah, That wire inlay is sweet!:rockon:

My pleasure, puttin the pic up...RS said it wasn't for sale...not like I could reach it if it were.
Mace, I meant to say this earlier...that is one beautiful knife that you made.

Mace, I sent a PM but it got bounced back to me. What is the length of your blade from the tip to the start of the handle? OAL? Finally, the width of the handle, I love that thin look it has. What an exceptional knife, did you keep it?


My last aprentice knife was Moran inspired.
Mace

http://www.fototime.com/EACF776730203D1/orig.jpg[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot for the nice comments fellas.

Robert, The blade is 6-3/4" from tip to guard.....1-1/8" wide.

The handle is 4-3/8" from front of guard to the back....and about a half inch thick.




I would love to see more knives from these great men....I wonder....did Scagel do any coffin handles?
Mace