I'm sure there is more than one Holy Grail of Randall collecting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6599043614&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1

This certainly has to be at or near the top of the list.

My vocabulary is short on words to describe this beauty.


Grumpa

Yhis one would be close.... It looks dead mint.

Did you see the #1-8 she has for sale?

Grumpa / Tune,

Good morning, Guys!

That white Tenite 14 near took my breath away when I saw it. The sheath is CJ Moore and not Heiser. Talk about an interesting auction to watch.

The 1-8 stag should have a pin and from the pics I don't see one. I've seen a few others that were pinless in the pin era and I've always wondered what the reason(s) were for these exceptions.

Best,

Ron

Watch!?!?!?!?!?!

Are you not bidding Bo-B?:spy:

That's astounding. I wonder if she had any idea of the value this would claim. Two lousy photos, five days to go, and it's at $12,500 already.

Thanks for pointing this out. :D

Coop

Tune,

I gotta' save my money for the old ones. That one was made yesterday! :rockon:

Touche' :fencing:

Hoist a shot to the old ones........

I've been in contact with her and she is speechless She has 6 more to put up but she is just trying to catch her breath She already has an offer of 20K to take it down But I think it will go above that I have given her some suggestions to have it Authenticated so she may be contacting some of you

Hi Dick!

I'm very glad to see that the lady has been receiving good advice from my fellow Randall collectors, who have been trying to help her, rather than take advantage.

Well done gentlemen! :101

Cheers!

David

This IS an exciting auction! True-to-form are the usual "Can I buy it RIGHT now?!" comments. Here is your well-intentioned collector:

Hello, It is a pleasure to view such a beautiful Randall on eBay. Though I won't be in on the bidding, I will watch the bidding explode with pure enjoyment. Good Luck and if I could give any advice...do not sell this knife or any other Randall off of eBay early. Everybody is looking for that once-in-a-lifetime deal...it would be a shame for you to not get fair market value. Your husband has fine taste. Thx much for the viewing pleasure.Still, If I was a bidder, I would NOT take quite as much pleasure from unparticipating bidders comments that can influence the final price. :cursin :eek: :fencing:

She seems to have a clue. :D Let it fly! :flame:

Coop

Everyone likes to get a knife as inexspensively as possible and there is nothing wrong with that. All these "goody two shoes" non-particpants that make comments on an auction with NO intention of bidding are disingenuous to say the least. What their intention is, is to try and drive the price up for participants in the auction, kind of a "sour grapes" deal. "Out of my range so somebody is gonna pay". They will argue that's not the case but that is the gist of it.

I have never seen so much BS in my life. An auction is an auction, it will find it's own level. That is why it is an auction !! Interference by non-participants shouldn't be allowed.

Would anyone walk up to a table at a show when a deal was going down and tell the seller he was selling the knife too cheap? I doubt it, unless you wanted a five knuckle sandwich from the buyer. The difference here is people can hide behind their keyboard to make their stupid comments. If it ain't your deal, butt out.

The "sweet old granny" don't have to post those comments. She ain't as dumb as she acts. The old man should have sold his collection while he was alive and spent the money. Or is he gonna? Hmmmm. "Honey, you put it up on your ebay account, those guys know me"

Quite a sophisticated discription for her to come up with on her own. Why do I assume he is dead. heehee. must be worried about not being able to take it with me. Maybe he just ain't an ebayer type o' guy, and she needs some more ukulele money.

I trust no one on ebay. Must be getting jaded.

Anyone ask for more pics?

Anyone ask for more pics?

Addtional pictures have been provided. It is what it is.

You raise a good point about the detail of the description. She is difinitely getting help from someone. She isn't getting that out of a Randall catalog.

Another good point you raise is it may be an errant assumption her husband is deceased.

(quote)"Why do I assume he is dead?"(quote)

Probably because they would have to pry it out of my cold dead hand to sell it if it was mine..:lol

Crutch is right. If your not bidding stay out of it. With the number of people bidding on Randall's the auction will take care of it's self. If she has turned down 20k I doubt she was breathless when it hit 12,500. And everyone asking for a buy it now price isn't trying to rip the seller off. If it doesn't hit 20k I wonder if the non bidders who told her not to sell it are going to offer to make up the difference. A couple of years ago I made an offer on an RB scrim. I was turned down and ended up getting it for $ 400 less than my offer when the auction ended. The seller told me he wished he hadn't listened to the people warning him not to end the auction early. With her descriptions of both the 14 and the model 1 she has on ebay, she knows exatly what she has. These aren't the descriptions of a wife who has no idea what her husbands knives are worth.

Steve

Addtional pictures have been provided. It is what it is.

You raise a good point about the detail of the description. She is difinitely getting help from someone. She isn't getting that out of a Randall catalog.

Another good point you raise is it may be an errant assumption her husband is deceased.


....And would anyone begrudge her if this is the case?

My wife and I collect coins, knives and firearms, among other things. She is fairly knowlegable of much of our collections. We have already "tagged" which items will go when my medical bills increase and you can bet I have coached her on the value of these items and where to look to keep abreast of info on other items in our collection.

In my case, there will come a time when I am unable to write my own ads, or even be aware of such things. I won't necessarily be dead. I won't "be" a collector at that point. To say I "was" one would be appropriate.

We have been watching the bidding on this knife since day one and following the posts about it on the various forums. She's been surprised at some of the reactions, but I told her this is probably something she should come to expect. Afterall, women aren't usually interested in such things and the internet is a hotbed of fraud these days.

No special point to be made here and no disagreement, just an observation and anecdote on how things aren't what we expect. But if the knife is real than perhaps this lady is too. If her husband is still among us, hopefully he'll smile and she'll know she done good! It's up to 15K with Friartuck leading by a nose.........anyone read a good book on English half log homes and furniture lately??????

----- Tom

....And would anyone begrudge her if this is the case?
----- Tom

Tom -

I don't think anyone was "begrudging" this woman. I think the nature of the wording in her auction led many to believe - rightly or wrongly - that she was an elderly widow with no real knowledge of what she had. I don't believe that is the case at all as you can see in my posts and Hammerdownnow's posts.

I think this possible misconception led several to "get involved" as good samaritan's if you will. Hence my comments about getting involved in transactions you are not part of. I don't have a dog in this particular fight but it can set precedent's for individuals that feel the need to interfere in other's business. Refer back to my analogy in a previous post of a deal going down at a knife show. I don't think too many would have the testicles to say what was said to her in emails at a show face to face while a transaction was taking place. Different when you are at your computer somewhat in anonymity.

So what we have to consider is every time a real nice Randall shows up on ebay there will be a gauntlet of opinions given to the seller from non-participant "busy bodies" on how much it should sell for or they shouldn't take less than X amount of dollars. That scenario sucks if you are a bidder.

Cruch Tip

I agree with you 100% :bow

Kent
RKS #109

Suess -

I think your slant is, well............ slanted! It is irrelvant what approach the buyer takes, it is what the seller chooses to do. If the seller chooses to end an auction early, that is his/her perogotive. You can't blame a buyer for that, the onus is on the seller. Also, if you have to contact the seller to ask them not to stop the auction, you have already lost. That has been my experience anyway.

You are also comparing apples and oranges with an ebay timed ending auction and a real time live auction. Even in the latter the buyers are only gonna do what they are gonna do, regardless of any yelling and screaming going on. Often these folks are referred to as the "peanut gallery." People get excited at these live events, but there are auction houses that don't allow that behavior. You won't see it at Sotheby's while bidding on a Monet.

To net it out is this, you either participate or spectate. If it is the latter I once again say butt out. My .02

Several years back, a lady put up 3 Randalls on ebay with buy it now on them. I bought the least expensive right away. Ten minutes later I considered the prices of the other two to be resonable and went to buy them. The listing had been changed to say someone had emailed to advise her to take down the buy it now option. To say the least, I had mixed emotions. It did make me think a bit about making sure someone knew the value of what I have in case I stepped off a curb. I still don't have that totally covered.

I agree also. Those who pretend to be "Do Gooders" for do gooders sake should evauate there motives before speaking. Knife show etiquette should apply across the board. But...who else do we have to grouse to but each other. Thanks for lending an ear brothers dear.

Talk about your apples and oranges comparison. I don’t see how you can compare a semi-private deal at a knife show with 2-3 straphangers looking on, with a very public, internet-wide, E-Bay auction with millions of straphangers looking on. I see more differences than similarities. There’s little privacy out here in cyberspace. You’re not going to tune out a peanut gallery of millions. If they say something, they’ll claim a freedom to speak. Know what? They're right even if it isn’t their deal and they hide behind their keyboards. I view peanut gallery comments more as noise distorting the main message. If they succeed in getting a Seller to stay with an auction to the bitter end, so be it. There is plenty of room for the Seller and the Buyer to gain or loose before, during and after the auction. There’s also plenty of room for error in an auction take down offer.

If we are worried about the peanut gallery, why aren’t we also worried about going behind the auction to take an item down early? Is this any better than the person who butts in line at the ticket window and gets the seats you wanted? What would your reaction be? Consider that going behind the auction 1) preempts a few from the opportunity to bid, 2) denies others the valuable comparable sales information from a completed auction, 3) Bends E-Bay’s rules, 4) may cheat E-Bay out of some money, 5) cheats watchers out of experiencing a tightly contested auction, 6) Precludes the watchers and losers from being able to congratulate the winning bidder,, and 7) exposes naive Buyers and/or Sellers to individuals whose intentions may not as benevolent as those who express themselves here. Talk about hiding behind a keyboard. Have you ever learned the name of the person who preempted your chance to bid on a collectable Randall? It never happens at a Randall knife auction, does it?

I believe if you rant about a peanut gallery’s comments, you might just as well remove your blinders and rant about related issues.

As to the Seller, why assume anything; although the discussion has been most interesting. The wife could be 30 and the husband could be 80. Does it really matter? What does matter, is that “the knife is what it is”. The rest is all hype and conjecture. Enjoy the auction, life’s too short.

Get your play dough out and mold your best deal.

Have any of you gentlemen and gentle ladies seen my keys to the US Treasury building? I think I’m going to need them tonight.



Grumpa

Very best of luck to ya G!

Winning bid was $28,200.00. Too much for me...... hahahahha

Bill

Congratulations to the winner! :101


And best of luck explaining this purchase to your wife. :eek: :doubleenf :help:

Cheers!

Moosehead

P.S. Now I'm wondering if I should put mine up for sale....:lol

....I have been watching the auction for that great knife and also this thread. It seems to me that even though the internet is an enormously large place it is possible through the magic of Google to find most anything. Anyone who really wanted to learn about what Randall collectors thought about the value of that knife could have easily found this site and the discussion we are having here. To me that just makes all of us a part of the peanut gallery. Any comments made here are just like those comments sent to the lady selling the knife. I personally have no problems with people making comments here or to the seller on any of the many auctions I have bid on for Randall Knives. The knife is what it is and the story written by the seller and the comments of bystanders have no bearing on how much I will bid. Likewise the bidders in the auction in question did not need us or anyone else to let them know that the knife really is about the "Holy Grail" of Randall collecting. If you have a problem with peanut gallery comments you may want to consider that any comments you make here actually make YOU a part of the peanut gallery. And BTW, it seems like every time I am at gun show and seriously looking there are plenty of people whom I do not know who will make comments about the gun I am looking at. Gun shows here are crowded and most of the guns are in cases or locked down with wire cords to prevent thefts. When you get serious the vendor will unlock the cords and let you handle the gun and the nearby browsers notice and start talking. IMO, no harm, no foul. It is just the way it is.
....And Moose, I am not sure I understand your last post. Are you really thinking about putting your wife up for sale?????
Jeff

Jeff,

You just slayed me: I'm dying! :lol

Thanks and best,

Ron

Way to go Jeff!

I agree completely with what you and Grumpa have said.

Nope definitely not my wife, who makes me buy Randalls. :rockon:

I was really thinking about selling my vintage Boy Scout knife which was secretly assembled by Bo in 1938 from assorted used cutlery parts. It was purchased from Bo in July 1939 by a young Canadian corporal who was buying oranges from a fruit stand in Orlando. Soon after, the soldier was called to serve in the fight against fascism during WWII, where the knife proved to be his trusted companion for over five years.

In 1952 the soldier, now a captain took the knife with him to Korea, where he traded it for some cigars to an American colonel. Eventually, the knife was used it to gulp down rations in the Vietnam War, by the officer's driver, who had been given the knife by the now four star general.

Somehow the knife ended up in a pawn shop in Detroit, where a outdoor enthusiast from Windsor, Ontario bought it and took it on a camping trip in the Laurentian mountains of Quebec. He lost it by a picnic table at a camp ground, where I was fortunate enough to have found it!

Look for this knife to be on sale at an eBay auction near you soon. :lie:

Cheers

David, full time member of the Peanut Gallery

Moose,

What sort of condition is it in? Could you post a pic?

God love those wifes who force our participation in the Randall knife hobby. My arm is perpetually in a sling because my wife twists it each and every time a nice Randall goes up for auction.

Hats off to the Wives. Not only are they pretty; they're smart!:rockon:

By the way, just how rare was that knife?


Grumpa, aka Irving "Irv" Schuetze

While I didn't have the $$ to even consider getting involved in the bidding, I DO have $10 to throw in a bidding pool on guessing how long it will take to see this knife appear again on eBay. And NOT by the purchaser. Folks, I am afraid that we will see this knife come up for sell over and over for a very long time.

:puke:

Tuner, condition is "MINTY", as you can see here:

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1346&d=1126469225

Rainy, I'm sure you are 100% right. This white tenite handled knife will join the 50th Commemorative with the stained sheath, and the collection 0f 39 in the scam artists "Hall of Shame"!

Grumps, do you mean how rare is my knife, or the one you forgot to bid on? :D
In either case I think the knives are pretty darn rare.

Cheers!

Moosehead

Moose

I didn't forget to bid. My play dough supply ran short and no one returned my keys to the US Treasury building. At $28,200 a guy needs all the help he can get.

I understand "darn rare", but does "darn rare" equal a number or at least a guess? The white tenite appeared about 1954 and probably went to green tenite about 1957, so may be 50 to 100???

I comment on lots of subjects, but not wives.:)


Irving

About all I can say is, "HOLY CRAP!"

Can some math wiz out there figure out what the return on the original investment was? What would that knife cost in '54 or '55?

Personally, I gotta think I'd never pay that much for anything smaller than a house, even if I could, but you never know.

" I understand "darn rare", but does "darn rare" equal a number or at least a guess? The white tenite appeared about 1954 and probably went to green tenite about 1957, so may be 50 to 100???"

Grumpa

Hey Grumpa.....What if the knife turns out to be a "TAN" tenite and not a "WHITE" tenite. One of only a few ever made. Probably made from one of only a few "TAN" tenite samples sent to Bo Randall in 1953. We all know Bo didn't throw anything away.

Cracker

The knife new was $28.50. If it had sold for $57.00, that would be a 100% return. If it sold for $114.00, that woud be a 300% return.

It sold for $28,200. My estimate is (($28,200 - $28.50) / $28.50) * 100 = 98,847.37 percent. That is approximately 987.5 time the original investment.

Hope some of you mathematical types will check me out. My math is a bit rusty.

Think about what $28.50 represented to the averege person back then. Minimum wage was $1.00 per hour. I was able to get $00.40 an hour in a grocery store as part time help. Tenite warped and shrank. Many handles were replaced by the Randall shop. This item may indeed be rare.


Grumpa

Hi Grumpa,

My calculations may be off, but I get a different number:

It cost $28.50 when it was purchased. (Round off to $28.00)

It sold for $28,200.00 (Round off to $28,000.00)

$56.00 = 100% ROI

$560.00 = 1000% ROI

$28.000.00 = 50,000% ROI ($28.000.00 / $560.00)

Cracker: I know a few guys who have been involved with Randalls a long time and they think your subhilt is even more valuable than your Tenite! :rockon:

Best,

Ron

Cracker,

$28.00 in the 50's for a handmade knife. Some may say, are you nuts !!
$28,200.00 these days for that same handmade knife. Some may still say, are you nuts !!
Seeing your face soon after you picked it up from the post office,ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS !!!!!!!

jason

Jason,

Words can't describe the excitment I felt that day......when you called and asked me to bring it down to the shop I could hardly sleep thinking about it.

I wish you could have been with me and Billy from VINTAGE KNIVES at the post office when we opened the box. We weren't sure if we were going to find a ziplock bag full of kitty litter or the Tenite I had been dreaming about. We probably looked like a couple of kids ay Christmas.

Thirty five years ago when I was 13 years old and hanging off the back of my Dad's garbage truck and we would drive by the shop at around 5:00 in the morning I would see the Randall Knives sign through the mist and darkness and my mind would wander ....... wondering what kind of knives were being made way back there. (when your 13 and hanging off the back of a garbage truck you make your mind wander so you didn't have to think about what you were doing)

I guess the whole deal came full circle for me that day.

Thank you to you and your Dad for being gracious enough to share that day with me. You are very special people.....a very special family.

And by the way......$28,200.00 was one hell of a bargain.....I don't care how you calculate it.

One happy Cracker:doubleenf :doubleenf

Cracker, your unbridled enthusiasm and genuine joy in having acquired this incredible tan Tenite #14 is a pleasure to see!

I have no doubt that you will treasure this really rare Randall knife for the rest of your days, and at your tender age this should be a very long time.

Once again, congratulations!!! :101

Cheers

Moosehead

[QUOTE=cracker]" I understand "darn rare", but does "darn rare" equal a number or at least a guess? The white tenite appeared about 1954 and probably went to green tenite about 1957, so may be 50 to 100???"


I submit the term "white tenite" is actually a misnomer, but accepted in the collector world to describe a light tenite other than green. None of the tenite is "white" (at least not after 50 years) but varying shades of cream or tan if you will. If the white tenites we know are in collections were samples, then they were samples of a color experiment or choice I believe Bo Randall was making possibly to offer an option of handle color. The choice being "white" and/or green. I have owned probably 5 or 6 different colors or shades of green tenite.

Ronnie Becket has a 14 with green tenite that has the earliest model C sheath for a model 14 or 15 I have seen. It is the similar style Moore sheath of the original model 15 submitted to the USMC and pictured on page 143 in Gaddis. There is a photo of Beckett's knife in Hunt's second book on page 151. Note the rivets are only at the throat and note the translucent stone pouch snap. Also note the keeper style, orientiation, and stud location. It is the only one of it's type I have seen. If you guaged the date of knife manufacture between Ronnie's and Dan's knives by the sheaths, you might say Beckett's knife was earlier and it is a green tenite.

A collector in Cal. has a white tenite 15 with a letter stating it was acquired in 1955.

Dan's knife is the bigger brother of a 15 pictured on page 63 in Silvey's "Viet Nam" book. This knife (belonging to another collector in Cal.) came out of the Blade Show about 8-10 years ago.

How many were acutally made with this light tenite material is hard to say. I don't think more than 20(?) survive. In any case, you have a nice knife and sheath Dan.

Hey Crutch tip,

Your theory on the "shades" of color in relation to the "WHITE" tenite was discussed at the Randall shop a couple weeks ago with Jason & Gary Randall.

Although this theory has long been the understanding among Randall collectors who realized the differences in color when comparing "WHITE" tenites it was quickly discounted by the Randall's.

"WHITE" tenites were not "samples" but a color used for a specific time. A number of 14's and 15's were made from "WHITE" tenite and a much smaller number of 14's & 15's were made from "TAN" samples that were sent to Bo to see if he liked them. (as well as some other color's.....word has it there may have been some "BLUE" tenites sold. Then a larger number of 14's & 15's were made from "GREEN" tenite

Gary & Jason said my knife was definitely not a "WHITE" tenite but a "TAN" tenite and was made from a small number of samples that were sent to the shop in the early fifties. My knife is not the only "TAN" tenite around as I know of two others and I am sure that there are more.

I think what was "generaly accepted" to describe anything other than "GREEN" as you say should now be described as "WHITE" and "TAN" at the very least.

I have also heard of a theory that a ""TAN" tenite is a "WHITE" tenite that has changed or faded over time but it can be quickly discounted by laying them on a table side by side and comparing them.

I am sure you are much more experienced than I am so take it for what you think it is worth.....I have spoken to other experienced collectors who have opinions different than yours. I guess that's what makes collecting Randall Knives so interesting and I'm sure not all collectors will agree on everything.....I'm going with what Gary & Jason say.

Cracker

P.S......thanks Crutch tip.....I'm pretty fond of it too!!!!!!

Hey Crutch tip,

Your theory on the "shades" of color in relation to the "WHITE" tenite was discussed at the Randall shop a couple weeks ago with Jason & Gary Randall.

Although this theory has long been the understanding among Randall collectors who realized the differences in color when comparing "WHITE" tenites it was quickly discounted by the Randall's.

"WHITE" tenites were not "samples" but a color used for a specific time. A number of 14's and 15's were made from "WHITE" tenite and a much smaller number of 14's & 15's were made from "TAN" samples that were sent to Bo to see if he liked them. (as well as some other color's.....word has it there may have been some "BLUE" tenites sold. Then a larger number of 14's & 15's were made from "GREEN" tenite

Gary & Jason said my knife was definitely not a "WHITE" tenite but a "TAN" tenite and was made from a small number of samples that were sent to the shop in the early fifties. My knife is not the only "TAN" tenite around as I know of two others and I am sure that there are more.

I think what was "generaly accepted" to describe anything other than "GREEN" as you say should now be described as "WHITE" and "TAN" at the very least.

I have also heard of a theory that a ""TAN" tenite is a "WHITE" tenite that has changed or faded over time but it can be quickly discounted by laying them on a table side by side and comparing them.

I am sure you are much more experienced than I am so take it for what you think it is worth.....I have spoken to other experienced collectors who have opinions different than yours. I guess that's what makes collecting Randall Knives so interesting and I'm sure not all collectors will agree on everything.....I'm going with what Gary & Jason say.

Cracker

P.S......thanks Crutch tip.....I'm pretty fond of it too!!!!!!

I would like to know what that "specific time" was because there isn't but a handfull of these knives around of any "shade".

Who am I to argue? Tan sounds good to me. I still maintain none of them are white. The color of your knife being "tan", I know of probably 4 or 5 I suppose you could call tan snd I have compared them side by side to lighter cream (white) colored handles. I just never put any weight into the color difference just as I don't really put any weight into the color differences of green tenite. It is all the same material, just different dye lots.

IMO, the "blue" is actually a dark shade/variation of green. It almost looks grey. I have had at least one that was called blue by several collectors and I think as mentioned it depends on the dye lot or mix. Probably the same thing with the white/tan issue. A little more yellow or brown in the dye lot by DuPont.

Note there is on page 55 of Silvey's Viet Nam book a "red" tenite. I have seen one of these and don't know if it is actually red, just a mottled color. It is not red as we know it. Tom Clinton has a 16 tenite he purchased as red. He proceeded to polish the handle with semichrome and it stripped the color off and revealed a "white" handle below. This particluar handle was apparently dyed after the fact.

My .02[SIZE]

Crutch tip,

"SPECIFIC TIME"

That's easy......from the time the 14's started production until "GREEN" tenites came into production.....how many....????????

I have compared my "TAN" tenite to another verified "TAN" tenite by laying them side by side on a table and they were identical in color. If you look through all of the books you will see two shades....."TAN" and "WHITE" (or off white for the sake of argument) with very slight variation from photography effect.

I had heard the story of Tom's "RED" tenite actually being a "WHITE" after his cleaning of it.

I also heard that a long time Randall employee who remember's destroying a box of "BLUE" tenite for reason's I'm not privy to. But I believe one or two "BLUE" tenites were produced. Did they survive time......who know's. Maybe one will show up on ebay one day after someone decides to look in an old box in the attic.

Cracker -

I don't know if the light tenites were done before green was introduced. I don't think that is the case, but with so few light handles around it is hard to determine. Again I refer to Beckett's 14 in his "one of a kind" Moore sheath. It appears like it could be earlier than some if not most light handled knives.

I have seen Rick's 15 and it didn't appear to be out of the oridinary to me as far as light colored tenite goes. In other words, it didn't seem substaintially different to most of the others I have handled. It is a white/tan handle. I think more are closer in color than different in color. Again, that is my perception only and others may have a different view.

I had also heard the "blue tenite in a box" story. I doubt anyone could substatiate that story and that is probably all it is, a story.

I am not sure what "Rick" you are refering to but.......

I believe the "WHITE" tenite was the first being produced by Randall. It was certainly the color being used as the prototype for the Marine Corp project Bo was working on with Lt Jordan and Major Mehaffey in 1954.

If you look at the catalog Bo produced in 1954...... #11 (1954-1959) the model's 14 and 15 were portrayed as having light colored handles. I believe if the "GREEN" tenite handles were being produced at that time the catalog would have indicated a color option as I believe it is obvious that the handle being portrayed is light in color.

Due to the unusally long run of this catalog (5 years) there is no doubt that "GREEN" tenite handled 14's and 15's were being produced by the end of this particular catalogs reign.

I believe "WHITE" tenites were produced for a short period (maybe 2 years) before Bo switched to "GREEN" tenite. During the "WHITE" period a small number of "TANS" were produced. The "GREEN" tenite ruled until some point in the early sixties when a few "brown micarta" handles showed up and then of course the "black micarta"

Anyway .....thanks for debating this with me and let me add this disclaimer....It really doesn't matter to me either....white/tan......it's just a lot of fun learning the history.....sort of letting my mind wander......wondering what was going on way back there behind the sign.....sort of like when I was 13.

I'm just happy I'm not still hanging off the back of that garbage truck!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks again......Cracker

Rick Ward. Wasn't it his #15 you compared your knife to?

The first handle material submitted to the USMC wasn't tenite. The knives are in the museum and the handles were riveted on. It is a plastic of some sort, not sure exactly what. Hand fitted with the tang completely encased in the material. Only those two knive a a couple of other prototypes used this material.

Tex Mahaffey's knife is green tenite. Assuming he got one in the first order of Airmen in 1954 as the driving force behind the project, it does open up the question if white was the first or concurrent with green. Rhett owns that knife, perhaps he has some input. Gaddis states that tenite was made in different grades of hardness so perhaps that explains some of the early color variations.

The photos in the catalog you mention are photos of the prototypes with the plastic handle so it really isn't indicative of the color handle you would receive on a knife you ordered.

I don't think the white/tan handles were made beyond 1955 and maybe as for as short a period as 6 months. The first order was 21 May 1954. The second "official" order sent 9 May 1955. Extrapolating from a years time, you have to assume that not too many were sold during that interim time on an individual basis. I would also say that green may have been available during that year (see Mahaffey).

I wasn't trying to debate this Dan, just offering some observations. Like you I am always looking for information to sort through and analyze.

Hey, I am glad you aren't on the back of that truck any longer too!!

tip

Yhis one would be close.... It looks dead mint.

Did you see the #1-8 she has for sale?


Does anyone have a link to the #1-8 that tunefink mentioned? I searched ebay but didn't find it.

Here it is, Jerry:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6599278355&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

It is one of a few knives that were not pinned in a pin era.

Best,


Ron

Hey Moose......I meant to say thanks for the congrats!!!!!!

Ron.........I felt like you when you scored those beauties in such a short period of time. I was still delirious over the tenite when I saw the chance to pick up the sub-hilt. All the moons must have been line up on the sub-hilt deal.....I wasn't sure it was going to work out for a while.

Cracker

Cracker,

That's the way it goes sometimes: long dry spells and then bam, bam! I used to pass up a good knife if several of them became available at the same time. After I did, it seemed to take forever before another came up. Then I was kicking myself in the butt for not getting both of them. That only had to happen a dozen or so times before I finally learned my lesson. :punchself

Ron

Cracker, you're most welcome!

Ron, you said: "Then I was kicking myself in the butt...:punchself "

I've heard it said the you don't know your ass from your elbow, but this is ridiculous. :lol

Cheers!

David

Moosebreath,

That was the closest icon I could find to the action. It's also not the only ridiculous thing I've done :D

From a just listed eBay auction description:

This isnt the holy grail....its way more than that.My interests are turning into fine watches......thus its time for someone else to enjoy and invest in the future.This is the best Tenite Ive ever had and you wil be searching for a long time for one of these......its not white,but it also isnt $28,200,thats alot of money for a piece of white plastic.......but just like this........its RARE......check my feedback.


Nudge, nudge, wink, wink! Say no more! Say no more! ;) :gossip: ;) :gossip: ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist. :banplease

Cheers!

Moosehead

"This isnt the holy grail....its way more than that.My interests are turning into fine watches......thus its time for someone else to enjoy and invest in the future.This is the best Tenite Ive ever had and you wil be searching for a long time for one of these......its not white,but it also isnt $28,200,thats alot of money for a piece of white plastic.......but just like this........its RARE......check my feedback. "

Translation: I want to capitalize on the sale of a much rarer item while the iron is still hot!

I wouldn't poo poo this knife so fast. I believe it is what he says it is, a genuine USMC trial knife that some officer probably socked away. That IS rare as hell and maybe the only one in existence with the RC hardness test marks etc. Pretty interesting piece, a Randall purchased by the USMC on a po and we all know those 15's (even fewer 14's) were the only Randall's officially purchased by the gov't for testing.

There is a whole chapter in Gaddis devoted to the subject. So in some respects, his description isn't too far off the mark.

Hi Joe,

We can all count on you for a learned opinion, but does "circumstantial evidence" merit the $7-8K premium he's asking for the knife? With USMC provenance I can see it. Those probe marks and numbers could have been put there by anyone.

Ron

True, the marks could have been put there by anyone but I have known of this knife for at least 10 or more years which is prior to the real influx of information, a large quantity of collectors, and big dollars. In fact, I don't think Trazka even located the USMC test documents until a couple of years ago.

I have found that much of this rampant doubt about Randall's is internet fueled on sites such as this. The amount of altered knives is a very small percentage of total knives, but with every RMK Dick Tracey raising generally unwarranted concern on a myriad of knives, when a good piece comes up said internet pundits can't wait to throw the flag.

That being said, the particular collector who has it up for sale has put some great knives up the last few years and we all have seen them. He was collecting long before most of the particpants on these sites even knew what a RMK was. He has been honest in the dealings I have had with him, dealings with other collectors I know, and all I have seen go on ebay.

I have never known him to knowingly misrpresent an item. We could question his knowledge and description-opinion of a knife he has had up for sale (this 14 could fall under that category for some) but his track record for quality knives stands. So, I find it hard to believe that Marc intentionally put those RC test marks and #'s on the blade or more importantly that he (or anyone else for that matter) was savvy enough to even think of something like that. Particularly a decade or more ago.

He is free to ask what he wants for the knife and it will find maybe not it's value but it's desireability. As I stated, I think the knife is exactly as he says it is. Others can hold whatever opinion they choose.

Does anyone have a link to the auction?

Cracker

nevermind......I found it

Cracker

I don't know how to post a link, but all I did was type in Randall Tenite on ebay and it is the only one who showed up.

Sure looks fantastic!!

---DW---

I don't know how to post a link

Sure you do DW:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6631261443&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Moosehead

Hi Joe et al!

I think you missed the point of my post which was not meant to question the authenticity of the knife, but rather to poke as little fun at the seller's description. I interpreted him to mean that it would be a bargain to spend $16,500 for his # 14 with green plastic for a handle, but that shelling out $28,200 for a #14 with white plastic was not.

I find this somewhat humorous and ironic. :)

You may be right that the self-appointed Randall police are sometimes too quick to jump on an eBay listing and yell scam, but I believe it is still more helpful than folks sitting idly by and saying nothing. It's really up to the potential buyers to become as informed as they can before they lay out the big bucks for the "holy grails" of RMK, or anything else.

While not claiming to be anywhere near as knowledgeable about Randalls as someone like yourself, I still am able to spot a fraudulent auction, and a bogus or misinformed description of many Randalls on eBay.

Now did you see that great deal for a 50th Commemorative? The only problem with the package is the stained sheath! ;)

Cheers!

David

P.S. DW, PM sent.

Hello David -

I understood the nature of your post but you can't really blame him for the sales pitch. I suppose he happens to hold this particular knife in high esteem, and rightfully so in my opinion.

What I don't think people realize is the significance of this knife. Probably the most significant tenite in private hands because of it's pedigree and association wth the USMC tests. I suppose that remains to be seen as far as $$ value goes but historically, no question. Opinions will vary but is it obvious what the seller thinks and again, he may not be too far off the mark.

Thanks Joe!

I agree that it's quite the knife, and I'm willing to bet it will fetch in the 5 figures.

(Since it's already at 10K, I think that a safe bet.) :D

Cheers!

David

Joe,

You make a lot of good points and they are appreciated. It's an interesting knife and an interesting auction.

Grasshopper

"Probably the most significant tenite in private hands because of it's pedigree and association wth the USMC tests."

Joe.....is that fact?

Cracker

Cracker et. al.,

I will tell you what I know and what is my opinion.

I don't recall what provenance if any Marc has with the knife. I thnks Marc's conclusion is it has been accepted for years by promenent collectors that it was tested in some fashion by the USMC testing board. Probably the best bet for anyone interested is to get a copy of the test methods, requirments, etc.

My opinion is it is exactly what he claims. I think it is reasonable to conclude what the RC test marks and numbers intimate. Again, having the test doc's sitting in front of you may help shed some light on it for any interested parties.

Understand, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am just going on what I believe to be true. So, unless someone can come up with a more plausible explanation, I concur with what has been deemed "fact". My .02

Thanks Joe!!!!!

Cracker

FYI.....I attempted to initiate some dialog with the seller concerning the "test marks" but he didn't seem to be in the mood to talk.

Cracker

The numbers on the blade are typical of what would be expected of a Rocknell hardness test on the "C" scale which would be appropriate for this blade. The indentations are NOT what you would expect of a Rockwell test for hardness on the "C" scale. They WOULD
appear as diamond shaped indentations not round!

seuss

Well folks, what Seuss says would make me very leery of the story associated with the knife.

Especially so, after reading the seller's answer to a perfectly straight forwad question asked by some guy named Dan.

Both the question and answer are put on display at the end of the auction description, making them public, see below:

"Q: Hello - This Tenite may very well be worth to me what you are asking but can you tell me how you know for sure these test marks were done by the military - thanks - Dan

A: I have no idea who did them...."

To me this is a very inappropriate and inadequate response.

As our own Captain Chris always says. "Buy the knife, not the story!"

Just my 2.2cents...

Cheers!

Moosehead

FYI.....I attempted to initiate some dialog with the seller concerning the "test marks" but he didn't seem to be in the mood to talk.

Cracker


I never said he was the most personable fellow.

After reading Mooses post, it is obvious Marc is wanting to remove himself from any post purchase scrutiny if you will. He has been selling off his collection for the past several years and is probably down near the end.

Not having any "paper" that says "this knife is this" as Dan asked about has most likely made him leery of guaranteeing anything. He just wants to sell and get out. Understand that he may not be the most knowledgeable collector and the idea this knife was a test knife did not originate from Marc but another well know west coast collector. In fact the same fellow that coined the term, buy the knife not the story. I am not gonna say who as not to drag anyone else that has no stake in this into a debate. In any case, the prevailing thought has been that is what the knife is. Is anyone 100% certain? Could anyone say for sure upon close examination? That remains to be seen.

That knife has been holed away for so long no one has really seen it back east. It would be interesting to get Gaddis' opinion, Hunt, TC, and a few other collectors that will be at Blade.

As far as buying the knife not the story goes, it is all perception and wants. Some collect sock drawer knives, some collect items with provenance, some collect ivory, etc. etc. There are so many factors to consider even after you find your niche. I have paid handsomely for a story many times and have not regretted it.

Got a call from Moose...This is all very confusing to me... I don't live in CA, I do like watches, I am losing my memory, so is it possible that I posted on ebay an item I know absolutely nothing about? :spy: :spy: :spy: :banplease

Marc

Moose and others.......I agree but in all fairness to the seller my question was kind of dumb as he never say's in his description that the military did the testing. I guess I should have worded it differently but I was just hoping to open up some sort of dialog with him concerning the testing.

As Joe say's " it has been accepted for years by promenent collectors that it was tested in some fashion by the USMC testing board. All the seller says is:

"The test marks might be for the USMC as we all know they were testing tenites but never adopted them"

I guess it were my knife to sell (for $16,000) and someone asked me a question I would offer all the information I could. I can only summize from his answer that he has no credible evedence that the testing was done by the military.

Now.....with that being said would someone drill a bunch a holes in a Tenite to make it more valuable? You never know but I would guess if he has owned the knife for over ten years and with the value of the Tenite being only a couple grand that long ago my guess is NO ( although I have been wrong before.......actually several times already today)

I guess all in all after the short answer I got I'm going to just sit on my wallet.....for now anyway

Cracker

I guess all in all after the short answer I got I'm going to just sit on my wallet.....for now anyway


Sounds like the right decision to me, Cracker. (But what do I know?)
I just hope you don't keep anything sharp in your wallet...:lol

Now as for the wap trying to claim the dude is some imposter... Well, I'm not buying any of it.

Glad to see you posting again, Marc. We missed you! :101

Cheers!

Moosehead

Thanks Moose! (#### I thought I came here incognito:spy: :spy: :spy: ):D

Very educational; fun too! Thanks guys.
tom (sock drawer collector)

Thanks Moose! (#### I thought I came here incognito:spy: :spy: :spy: ):D


Hey, Wapper:

Good to have you back: cognito or incognito!

Best,

Ron

Marc,
...We thought you might have gotten a real life and left all us ain't right folks behind.
Jeff

Good to hear you guys. I have to admit I have had many temptations to not be associated with the
"just ain't right" club. :banghead :p , but the more I think about it, the more I realize I...I...I
i... "ain't right":help: as well:rockon:

'been busy with the Rover, determined to be at least a half assed mechanic.. :cursin

But I do miss you guys.. I do..

Well folks the quest for the latest holy grail (green Tentite this time) has ended with the winning bidder taking it for $12,800. :eek:

Cracker I thought you were going to sit on your wallet, but perhaps that bonk on the head had something to do with it. :banghead
Anyway, just think how much $$$$$ you saved. :D

Some guy called Fullofbigbucks (or something like that) is the "lucky" winner! :spy:

Cheers!

Moosehead