ok does any one have any they want to get rid of, or does anyone know where i could get my hands on some..hopefully the high carbon ones!! thanx in advance

Ron- call your local CN Railroad office- I bet they can point you in the right direction.

How many do you need?I have a few laying around.

oh maybe 5 or 10..i make tomakawks out of them..it also depends how much you want..do you know if they are high carbon?

Let me have your address and You pay shipping.These are all marked h.c.,I was told this was high carbon.

you`ll have to wait a bit..we have a virus right now and i don`t want to e-mail anything in case we send it to someone else...we may have it killed allready though

Robert..could you e-mail your email address so i can send you my address..i would love to get some good spikes
my e-mail is.. little_hen_knives@hotmail.com
and yes we got rid of the virus...pesky little bug!!

I live in Georgia so,I will check on the cost.

I'd like to know how much you are wanting to sell these for. You can email me at: llzp@ev1.net
Larry

email address washburn@nlamerica.com

I was told that HC on the head of a railroad spike was a manufacturer's mark and not the sign of high carbon. The only way to know is either by contacting a manufacturer for specs (which they may or may not be agreeable to giving out) or spark testing them. Most I have found are either mild steel or wrought iron (which isn't a bad score in itself).

A year or two back, I was at the Abana Quad State Roundup up in Troy, Ohio. There, a fellow had a box of foot long railroad spikes with a head on each end. Come to find out that that's how they are made. There was an Ohio manufacturer's name on the box. A friend of mine in Ohio tried numerous times, in vain, to contact the company just to see if they would sell to an individual, and to determine the type of steel of which they were made. He was never allowed to talk to anyone beyond a receptionist, and no one in authority would return his calls. Guess their market is sewed up tight.

For what its worth, I have forged 2 knives recently from rail road spikes, one stamped H.C. and one not. Both were heat treated the same and the H.C. one got harder. As well to my neophyte eye, the sparkies from the H.C. spike read carbon. In the last little while I have collected well over a hundred spikes by walking a remote section of track and have only found about one in twelve stamped H.C.

ghostdog

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp I'm not saying that I'm right and anyone else is wrong, 'cause I've heard credible stories on both sides of this issue. I have *heard* that the h.c. is on some spikes due to a federal law requiring certain alloy characteristics for certain uses of the spikes, and it does mean High Carbon.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Near where I live (in an un-disclosed location... heh heh heh...) there are two fifty-gallon drums by the tracks... in one of them there are dark spikes marked H.C. and in the other one, noticably lighter in appearance and unmarked- yet more spikes. Some of the spikes in both barrels have clearly been used and yet they are separated. ( Thanks Guys!!! ) The discovery reinforced my opinion that the H.C. does indeed mean High Carbon.

The two did make a nice damascus that hardened well.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 'bout time I took a trip back, actually... maybe I can perform some tests on them and try to see for sure.

-J. Loose

That's the fundamental problem; everybody has "heard" one thing or another, but there doesn't seem to be any available criteria with which to prove one way or another what everybody has heard. Man, I'd love to get a hold of some spec sheets on some of these spikes. Sometimes I think it would be less difficult getting blueprints on a Stealth Bomber. I've seen some that have HCX on the heads. Any thoughts on that marking?

HCX...?

Boink. Got me. High Carbon Xylophone?

I got my info from someone on the Swordforum Bladesmith Cafe- went to look it up but apparently everything got eaten by the dog at some point. As I recall they had some documentation and I think they may have addressed the HCX thing- but it is still a case of hearsay...

I'll grab some more when the snow melts in a week or two. We can test 'em.

HEY RON! (way up there...) Gimmee shipping and I'll send you some of both kinds. If you're interested give me an E-mail- I'll let you know when I go Spike-hunting....

Hey Guys:

I finally was able (after not less than 4 or 5 emails and several hours of research on the internet) to come up with the following definitive answer to the one question we have all been wanting to get the answer to: What is the composition of rail track spikes? Here is the response I got from Sheffield Steel:

Larry,

HC does mean the spike is high carbon. The AREA spec. for making high carbon spikes only specifies that the carbon content of the steel be a minimum of 0.30 percent. We specify a carbon range of 0.30 to 0.35 percent for the high carbon material that we use.

If there is no HC mark on the head, then the spike should be low carbon. The AREA spec. for low carbon only specifies a minimum carbon of 0.06 percent. Obviously the specification is not going to give you much of a clue as to the true composition of the steel in any particular spike.

Both grades of spikes have to meet a bend test that is fairly severe. Because of that bend test requirement, I doubt that you will see any spikes with a carbon content higher than 0.35.

There is also a mark on the head of the spike that identifies the manufacturer. Our spikes are identified by a W. Additional markings that you may see are CU. CU means the steel is copper bearing, with a minimum copper content of 0.20 percent.

Hope this information helps.

Dwain Marple

I hope this is helpful to some of you. I have never done any forging, but after having read Tim Lively's how-to on the Tutorial page regarding building your own forge (get this...from a washtub!!! My sincere thanks to Tim and all who are so willing to share their experience and knowledge.)...I'm *mighty* tempted to give it a whirl. Here is a link to Sheffield Steel's site: <a href=http://www.sheffieldsteel.com/>sheffieldsteel.com</a> Again, I hope this helps someone.

Thanks Larry. So, a high carbon spike is in reality, at best a medium carbon steel. Hats off to Sheffield for supplying the info, and to you for taking your time to dig it up. Very helpful.

Dana,
No problem...I actually rather enjoyed the challenge of the dig. Maybe someone could answer a question for me. It may seem basic to some of you with forging experience, but please keep in mind that about as close as I have ever been to a forge is my TV set. ;) I am wondering how long it might take to hammer a spike down into a workable size for making a knife through the forging process?
Larry

Don't mean to sound evasive, but there's a lot of "depends" when it comes to judging the time. If you have an adequate forge which gets yor piece "sunrise orange" you should be able to forge the blade out to something workable in a couple of hours. That's a guesstimate. Skill level and appropriate tools have a lot to do with it. I forge for the most part with a 5 pound hammer. When I first got started I was using a 2 pound hammer. I can forge one faster with a five pounder, as I can move more metal with each lick.

Where are you located, Larry? Perhaps there's a smith within driving distance who can help you out. That can shave off a bunch of time--having someone around who can keep you on target and away from pitfalls.

Dana,
Thanks for the input. I can see where bigger would be better when it comes to which hammer to use. I envy all you guys who are already forge-capable. Sounds like a real kick. With regard to where I am, I live in Houston and I am sure that there are at least a few 'smiths within driving distance. And, if they are anything like everyone I've had the pleasure of dealing with in this forum, I am sure they'd be happy to offer me plenty of pointers and advice. All you guys have been just great and I appreciate the time everyone takes from their personal time to offer their help. Time is the one thing we can't get more of. We can get more money, more material things, and I am sure we could all name off a list of replaceable things to acquire, but, without a doubt, time does *not* fall into that category. So for all you people who give your time so willingly and so freely...I sincerely *applaud* you.
Larry

Larry,
You did good on the research. We appreciate it. Your CKD all the way man. Here's a spike knife I did about 2 years ago. Sorry, the picture is crappy. It's from my old digital camera, which wasn't much good.

http://www.shreve.net/~primos/spike.jpg

The spike was marked HC, but it didn't harden fully in an oil quench. I reheated and quenched in water and it worked out okay.

Now I understand why. The RR spike guys may consider .35 to be high carbon, but in knife steels .40 is at the bottom range of medium carbon, and anything under that is low carbon.

If I recall correctly, I spent about 45 minutes at the forge on this one.

Ok, folks,
Here is another response I got from an email I sent out. It was a bit different in nature than the other, but I was asking more specific questions; the main one being how to achieve a 58-60 Rockwell 'C' scale hardness.

Mr. Powell
There are two common grades of track spikes specified. "Soft Steel" and
"High Carbon" types are defined by the "American Railway Engineering and
Maintenance of Way Association" (AREMA formerly AREA). Both are plain
carbon carbon steel with no other significant alloys added. The soft carbon
variety have a carbon of .12% minimum and tensile strength of 55,000 psi.
The "High Carbon" variety is .3% minimum carbon and 70,000 psi tensile (less
than Rc 10).
The ones with "HC" or "HCX" at are the "High Carbon" variety. They are
required to have "HC" stamped on the head. Any other letters you see are
probably the identification of the manufacturer. Soft steel spikes are
marked with he manufacture's ID only. The railroads specs also have some
requirements for elongation and bend tests that tend to focus on ductility,
so the carbon will never be significantly higher than the minimum. I am
afraid the chances of heat treating this steel to Rc 58-60 are slim. .3%
carbon is not normally considered heat treatable. A case hardening treatment
might be possible for what you need.
We don't manufacture this kind of spike. They tend to be imported at very
low price. Our products are round parts, usually with threads. There are a
few domestic manufactures. They might be persuaded to make a few parts with
an alternate material. Their idea of a small quantity they would do would
probably be a lot more than you want.

Tim Austin
Lewis Bolt & Nut

This man went into a bit more detail which may be of help to some of you who are already forge-capable. At any rate I think we have pretty well established the basic specs for rail spikes. I do, however, disagree a bit with his suggesting that hardening the spikes would be a slim chance. I know none of you guys (ladies, please don't take offense to the gender thing...no offense intended) would even bother with making a knife from a spike if it wasn't "hardenable" (<---is that a word??). Does anyone with a spike knife have access to a Rockwell tester? I am curious how far from being right about it this guy actually is. I, for one, would like to know.
Larry
BTW:
Terry,
Nice looking piece! Pic was just fine. I hope to do that well when I get to finally give it a whirl. Can't wait...seems like it'll be a blast.

Larry, while I cannot speak for everyone, for the most part, I believe RR spike knives are pretty much just novelties. They make nice curios, around the shop string and box cutters, dirt diggers, hammers, vegetable choppers, and pry bars, etc. But I have never met a soul carrying a knife for using (for any application--cleaning under fingernails, to gutting a deer, to wire stripping to combat) who carried a RR spike knife. Even if the steel was high carbon by knife steel standards and fully hardenable (I don't know if that is a word either, but I like it) not many people would carry them (in my opinion.) They are neat, but clunky, and usually not well balanced. They're fun to make and give us some diversion in our forging, and people love to receive them as gifts. And although not as hardenable as other steels, they can be quite functional within limits. After all, our ancestors evolved just fine using copper, then bronze, then crude iron implements. I'd bet if we could travel through time, back to the bronze age, and take a bunch of RR spike knives and hatchets with us, we could name our price. They'd probably think they were the finest things since sliced bread. Come to think of it, you might have to take sliced bread too, I don't think they had that then either. :)

Dana,
I am in complete agreement with you. I know *I* wouldn't carry or choose one as my favorite knife (*except* for purely sentimental reasons possibly). I do think, though that they might be hardenable beyond what they start at. Might be that that is just my lack of experience with regard to what actaully takes place in the forging process ( I'm starting to like that word "forging" the more I use it ;) )As far as reaching 58-60 Rockwell, apparently I may stand corrected. At any rate I would still be curious to find out from someone firsthand who can test one. I'd almost be willing to bet that after forged, the blade would be tested around 50-52 Rockwell, and, if not, then at the lowest 45 or so. Who knows? We might all be surprised by the outcome of a test on one.
Larry

BTW:
Guys and Gals,
I have had alot of enjoyment in this forum over the past few weeks and obviously with this particular topic. Thank you all for your patience with it and your input.

Larry- when you get one forged and think you have a winner, send it to me and I'll do a hardness test on it.

Don,
I appreciate the offer, but I have access to one at work. I will, however send Ya the results *and* post a pic here when I do get one made. Might be a while, but I intend to do whatever it takes to become "forge-capable" (<---I'm starting to like the sound of that word combination whether its proper or not! ).
Larry
BTW:
Anyone have a guess as to why my last post up there shows me to be an unregistered user??