View Full Version : Akryloid B-72


DiamondG Knives
03-26-2004, 07:27 PM
Has sanyone tried Akryloid B-72 (sp?) for stabilization?

Also has anyone know a source for it, and how it works??

Thanks And God Bless

Mike

SteveS
03-26-2004, 07:39 PM
I've done a few woods and antler with it.

I haven't tried pressure, but used vacuum.

Results:

Antler - Just awsome, slightly darker color. Fills everything from the core out. Takes a beautiful polish. I keep a piece on my desk just for fun.

Wood - I got full penetration, but it did not create a hard finished product. Water would still raise a grain. I tried everything from 20 to 50% dilution (by weight) with toulene and some with 20% acetone. Soak times from hours to days. The best results were at around 25% solution in toulene, 4 hour soak. All sorts of woods, professionally dry (I believed).

Ivory - Seemed to work but can't tell

-----------------------------
I got mine from some wood finishing products site on the web. Came in bead form. Easy to use at least.

Does that help?

Steve

cwp
03-27-2004, 12:58 AM
Mike,

I have not tried it yet, but I just picked some up from woodfinishingsupplies.com. They seemed to have decent prices and good service. I got the link from another thread on stabalizing.
Stabalizing Bone (http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18875&highlight=B72)
I did a quick search on B-72 to find the thread and came up with a bunch of hits, including links to suppliers other than the above.

--Carl

Bernez
03-27-2004, 03:49 AM
BTW,

Acryloid B-72 and Paraloid B-72 are exactly the same stuff.
Paraloid is the name used in Europe. Museum restaurator use it a lot.

Edit:
Kremer Pigments (http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/) (Germany)

Bernez

DiamondG Knives
03-27-2004, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the post guys. Im looking for somthing that will give a hard finish as well as having void filling properties for burl woods.
Anyone know what the pro's are using??

Is there a cureing temp these pieces need to reach, or is air dry ok?

At $12 a lb finished weight, would I be better off sending to K&G or WSSI ?

Kind of like the do it yourself idea, but Id like to get pro results!
Oh well, cant have it all!!

Id love to hear any other ideas you guys might have!

Thanks and God Bless

Mike

JGardner
03-27-2004, 01:14 PM
I have used it on a couple of knives with maple burl handles. 15% in acetone, pulled a vacuum, and left it until the bubble stopped, then repeated. I kept this up until the handle material wouldn't float any longer. At that point I placed wood on a bakers rack and let the acetone evaporate away. I didn't try to "set" the Akryloid in the scales by heating or anything else; as a consequence it was gummy when I tried to work it. I have yet to go back and try a low heat (or something else) to see if I get a less gummy finished product. You might also consider using Minwax Wood Hardener, that is if you haven't already. At least in my case I got about the same results with less irritation.


Justin

Darren Ellis
03-27-2004, 01:30 PM
Mike, If you're looking to turn wood into a polymer block like WSSI does, then you need to be looking for Resinol 90C or a source for MMA. Be prepared to pay the price for these though, as well as having to deal with the shelf life unless you're doing a lot of stabilizing. Other than that, Nelsonite and B-72 are about the best two other options out there....

Also, not wanting to dredge up that "other" thread, I spoke to the manufacturers of Nelsonite 30B02, and the opened container has a shelf life of approximately 3 - 4 months, so looks like I'll plan to keep supplying it in smaller quantities as I have been doing. If you store it under vacuum, purge the headspace in the storage container, or "top up" the container by adding something to it (ball bearings, clean pieces of steel, etc), it will last longer, but keeping it away from air is key the manufacturer tells me...otherwise it starts to lose its efficacy.

:)

-Darren

Bernez
03-28-2004, 01:05 PM
Hi guys,

Has somebody a good source for a cheap vacuum (hand) pump, something like a brake bleader vacuum pump (i.e. Mityvac). Or maybe some alternatives and/or ideas?

Bernez

DiamondG Knives
03-28-2004, 02:00 PM
I have a commercial vaccume pump. Brand is "Robbibair" used by HVAC guys to pull vacume on A/C units.

Picked it up on ebay for $45. Havnt seen it yet, as Im away from home! Should be like Christmas all over again! Been buying all sorts of shop stuff on ebay!

Does anyone have any ideas for a pressure vessel for stabilizing. Been thinking a large pressure cooker, the type with the dogs on top that screw down.

Darren, do you know what WSSI and K&G are using? I know its not cheap, but do you have any idea on the price?

Thanks

Mike

Darren Ellis
03-28-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Bernez
Hi guys,

Has somebody a good source for a cheap vacuum (hand) pump, something like a brake bleader vacuum pump (i.e. Mityvac). Or maybe some alternatives and/or ideas?

Bernez

Hi Bernez,

Do an ebay search, I know there's a company that sells on there that has lab hand vac pumps for something like $25... If you find one and they won't ship internationally, you can always have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you...or there's an auto parts store 50 feet from my shop, I could send you a Mityvac from them if you needed...

:)

-Darren

Alain M-D
03-28-2004, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Darren Ellis
...or "top up" the container by adding something to it (ball bearings, clean pieces of steel, etc), it will last longer, but keeping it away from air is key the manufacturer tells me...


Hello Darren !
I use "Air Reduction Darkroom Photo Chemical Storage Bottles" to keep my
photographic chemical, maybe that can be useful to store your stabilisation stuff ?

http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/images/2076.jpg

Alain M-D
http://www.amd.miville-deschenes.com

Darren Ellis
03-28-2004, 03:23 PM
Mike,

Sounds like you are going to have an extra Christmas when you get home! :)

Your idea for the pressure cooker sounds good, or if you can find a 2.5 gallon paint pot that would work too. Alternatively, you could just build one...weld a base-plate to a piece of heavy walled pipe and then weld a ring on top and put an o-ring seal between it and a top-plate. Then you could just braze various fittings on the top-plate. The o-ring seal should be adequate for pressures you'll obtain with that Robinair pump. When I was working in the physics lab, my vacuum chamber for field emission experiments would pump down to 10^-7 Torr with an o-ring seal door....of course, we had a roughing pump backing a turbo pump to get it that low :D You'll probably be able to get in the 10^1 Torr range with that HVAC pump, so you'll probably be fine with any of the above options...

I'm not *exactly* sure what they are using, I've not seen anywhere where they've reported it on a public forum....but it is probably something like the Resinol or MMA. I know that Resinol 90C runs about $300 for 4 gallons and comes with an activator. After stabilizing, it requires baking to heat set the material.

:)

-Darren

Darren Ellis
03-28-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Alain M-D

Hello Darren !
I use "Air Reduction Darkroom Photo Chemical Storage Bottles" to keep my
photographic chemical, maybe that can be useful to store your stabilisation stuff ?

Alain M-D
[/B]

Hi Alain,

Hey, that's a pretty cool idea!!! I wonder how well they hold up to solvents? I'm going to have to look into those in more detail, many thanks for posting that! :)

-Darren

TJ Smith
03-28-2004, 07:04 PM
Just glueing on handle that I treated with a Akryloid B-72.
I added it to minwax wood hardener as it has a lot of acetone in it.
Vacumed the handle block for three days and put pressure on for 1 day.
It dried up fine. We'll see how it does.
Minwax does fine as far as far as firming up the wood but doesn't fill the pores.
I'll post when done.
Take Care
TJ

Bernez
03-29-2004, 01:32 AM
Do an ebay search, I know there's a company that sells on there that has lab hand vac pumps for something like $25... If you find one and they won't ship internationally, you can always have it shipped to me and I'll send it to you...or there's an auto parts store 50 feet from my shop, I could send you a Mityvac from them if you needed...

Darren


Thx Darren, I'll keep it in mind :)
Would a Mityvac be good/strong enought ?

Bernez

Darren Ellis
03-29-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Bernez


Thx Darren, I'll keep it in mind :)
Would a Mityvac be good/strong enought ?

Bernez


I'll have to defer to the experts who use one for direct experiences, as I've got a vacuum pump...but from what I hear you can get good results using one of the hand pumps for small batches...

:)

-Darren

Bernez
03-29-2004, 11:13 AM
Darren,

I did a search on e-bay but couldn't find what you mean lab hand vac pumps for something like $25... .

Can you be more specific what to look for?

Thx,
Bernez

Steve Owen
03-29-2004, 11:40 AM
would this work?http://cgi.earthlink.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805709902&category=26236

DiamondG Knives
03-29-2004, 02:46 PM
Im sure it would work fine, but I think if you shop around you will find them cheaper, keep searching ebay

Darren Ellis
03-29-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Bernez
Darren,

I did a search on e-bay but couldn't find what you mean .

Can you be more specific what to look for?

Thx,
Bernez

Hi Bernez,

This:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805838390&category=26236

or this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805838266&category=26415

were what I was thinking of... although, it looks like he's gone up in price a little for the one with a gauge. I don't think a Mityvac costs much more..maybe a little better built too.....

-Darren

Bernez
03-30-2004, 01:06 PM
Darren,

I've got one on e-bay. A second hand Mityvac (Alu body with gauge). But stupid as I am, I did not read the description carrefully (my mistake). The seals are not good anymore. Mityvac sells a rebuild kit for it (seller said) but I have no idea how much this will cost me.
As soon as I get the pump, I'll post the details. Maybe can you help me getting such a rebuild kit ;)
That was the first time I won something on e-bay, I now do understand why :p


Bernez

Darren Ellis
03-30-2004, 01:28 PM
Hi Bernez,

Absolutely, I'm glad to be able to help out! :) As soon as you get it shoot me an email with any information on it (model #, etc.) and I'll go to the auto store and pick up a rebuild kit for you.

:)

-Darren

Bernez
03-30-2004, 02:09 PM
Here a pic of the Mityvac I got/get.

http://www.600miles.com/files/ac4.jpg

Bernez

Bernez
04-02-2004, 04:00 AM
I've found a supplier for Paraloid B-72 in The Netherlands :D

Verf de Ru, Amsterdam
tel: +31-(0)20-6626821
fax: +31-(0)20-6760623

Price: 23,10 p/kg. (17.5% VAT/BTW included) + shipping.

Bernez