Dear Steve:

I've been making knives for years, but I still have problems grinding the top clip on a Bowie style knife. I need help. If you or anybody out there can give me an old Indian trick, I would be grateful.

Thanks,

T. Massey

Do you grind the clip before or after the bevels?

I like my 14" contact wheel to grind clips and bevel them. The 14" radius is usually very close to perfect and to bevel the clip I go to the wheel with the point down and at a slight angle, takes very little time but the learning curve took a while.

I grind my clips too, but if you start out with a file, you will learn more with fewer mistakes.
Grinding is a shortcut, not a cure all.
The file can be the most useful tool in your shop.
It may be slow, but it is true.
File a few to get started, then rough grind a few and clean them up with the file. Before long you won't need the file anymore.
The biggest advantage to doing this is you don't mess up blades learning.:)

Thanks for the replies. My DSL line has been down or I would have answered sooner. I am new at this forum and I don't yet know how to answer individually.

I grind the bevel first on a 10" wheel then flat grind the clip. My main problem is I usually roll it trying to finish it.

Thanks everybody

Terry Massey

I am a fan of finishing with a file as well but the complex geometry of the clip bevel is very difficult to do with a flat file. If I could get a curved surface fine tooth file I probably would use one to finish the clip. In the mean time I will stay with the contact wheel method.

I always use the grinder to rough out the clip and then will use a file to draw along the length of the clip and other parts of this area to get things flat. A 1/2" wide flat bast. works fine for me. The flat Swiss files are nice, too. I can't get a ripple-free surface without the file and file-backed sandpaper.

The first time I saw a D.E Henry's english style bowie and it's perfectly shaped clip I said - Now that's perfection ......and then along came Buster and raised the perfection bar to almost unreachable heights..... I just hate that Guy...! Him and his and his files keep me awake nights....I can hear him laughing all the from Utah..... Who said Morman's are good Guys..??

I used to work in S.W. Wyoming. Some of my best beer drinking buds were Mormons. But, it looks like I'm going to have to get off my arse, and break out the files, and do some manual labor. I hate manually doing what a machine is capable of doing, but I reckon my skill level is not up to it. The file it is. Thanks,

T. Massey

old Morman saying........never use a machine when the hand can do it better....... Lets put the hand back in Hand made knives...I think Buster said that......

Buster gets 10 times (at least) for a knife than I get. Same with Steve. I'm not taking away from them. More power to 'em. They are both as skillful as anyone in this craft. They deserve their sucess. They earned it.

I spent most of my adult life driving trucks. No matter how skillful you are at driving, you will never make 10 times the money that the guy you just passed makes. If you call for directions, and the idiot secretary who doesn't know North from South lands you in a residential area of Cleveland. You've 2 choices. Ruin sombodys lawn or back a mile.

About a year ago I was at home on a rare day off. It was a Tuesday afternoon. I made the mistake of answering my cell phone. I was working on a knife I had promised to a guy. Anyway, I answered the phone, and they said I had to go to West Plains (45 miles away) for a random drug test. I explained I was working on a knife I had promised, and I couldn't go then but I would go in the morning.

I got fired, and found myself unemployable. I now have a "rufusal" on my driving record. I have over 2 million miles of accident free miles driving in 18 wheelers, but I am unemployable. Aint this Nazi Government great? Who would you rather have coming at you on an icy 2 lane. Me, or some city kid who has never even drove a car? And his outrageously expensive taxpayer paid tuituion is going to Senator Smith's good buddy who donated generously.

Anyway, I will never pee in another Nazi Bottle. I'm trying to make a living making knives. I make quality knives. They're not Johnson, or Buster quality, but they're good.

The other day I ran into a guy who bought a knife from me about 5 years ago. Bob. He hunts a lot. My knife is the only knife he uses for skinning. He said "I cant dull it". I really can't take credit for that, but the credit goes to Paul Bos. (the heat treater, for those who don't know Paul Bos). The knife was 440-C. I have read a lot of crap about 440-C on the internet. 440-C is an excellent knife steel when properly heat treated. Paul Bos does it right.

My main steel now is ATS-34. Another customer named Bob awhile back brought his knife back to be sharpened. He had skinned 2 elk and 6 deer with it. It was still sharp, but did need touching up.

I have recently been making knives from a 4 foot diameter sawmill blade. This steel is incredibly tough. It is probably L-6, but I can't say for sure. I heat treated it thus: A heat til non-mag-netic. Then a quench in warm oil. Then, an hour in the oven at 400F. I abused the hell out of the first knife I made out of it. I chopped wood, and even threw it. The point bent, but didn't break. This is some fine steel. If it was only stainless.

Well, I got sidetracked didn't I? I always do. I do however make very fine knives. I'm not just braggin. It's a fact. I would put my mirror finish up against anybodys. I've got a 2 hp buff running at 3400 rpm. I figger I'm worth $10 an hour. I'm lucky to get $5. I just want to make chow, electric and phone. I own my place. I don't want anything from the taxpayer. I figger he's gettin screwed bad enough.

But, if I can grind a clip without using a file, I'm gonna do it. I will attain that before too long, and I won't feel a bit bad about it.

I've rambled long enough.

thanks everybody

T. Massey

Mr. Massey you sound angry.... Maybe you have a reason to be so .. It was not my intention to stir up those type of emotions but to point out a different path to get from point A to point B...in the construction of a knife.... I would like to see an example of your work .... I hope you don't take your anger into the shop...
our work reflects our ability to please our fellow Human beings and what the collecters are willing to pay to own these knives, reflects directly on those skills....The machine is an important tool but highly over rated in my humble openion...

I get it close on the grinder and then pull out the files. I can't imagine anything other than a true hollowground clip that a file won't do well. Can you tell I like files? I trust them. All grinders are females. mw

Mr Williams you hit the nail on the head.... All my shop machines are Ladies..... They stay up all night scheming of ways to get at my weaknesses.... Each morning I call them by name and lovingly touch each one.... They have brought a lot of joy into this world and in the same motion ripped the flesh on my body, thrown things at me ,punched holes in me, set me on fire and done unspeakable damage to my self esteem..... But I love them ..Without them I am nothing ... without me , they'll just wait for some other man to turn them on.... The sluts... A file is like a dog , trusting, faithful and a friend to the end....

Originally posted by T. Massey


But, if I can grind a clip without using a file, I'm gonna do it. I will attain that before too long, and I won't feel a bit bad about it.

I've rambled long enough.

thanks everybody

T. Massey

I don't use files on a clip, and I grind the clip first, and grind it to the finish grit.
I use an 8" wheel for the clip as it is usually not very wide anyway.
I hold the blade with the clip up, and horizontal, grind at whatever angle suits your end purpose, and don't worry about the bevel going down past the point, but make sure to leave enough there, because when you grind the main bevel, it will bring that clip bevel right back in line.

You can use a bigger wheel of course, and I sometimes use a 10". You can of course flat grind it, I'm just telling you what works for me.

You might try this and see if it works for you, although it might take a bit of getting used to.

Originally posted by Lloyd Hale
Mr Williams you hit the nail on the head.... All my shop machines are Ladies..... They stay up all night scheming of ways to get at my weaknesses.... Each morning I call them by name and lovingly touch each one.... They have brought a lot of joy into this world and in the same motion ripped the flesh on my body, thrown things at me ,punched holes in me, set me on fire and done unspeakable damage to my self esteem..... But I love them ..Without them I am nothing ... without me , they'll just wait for some other man to turn them on.... The sluts... A file is like a dog , trusting, faithful and a friend to the end.... ...
Mr. Hale; a man that understands power tools as well as you and expresses it so well as you do is refreshing. My grinder has a lot of the canine in her as well; but not of the trusted friend traits.
She will bite.
This has been good. If you run into me at a show I will buy you a beverage. mike

Whats a file??? :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:


BTW-just got back from 3 weeks in Ireland...............

Go there if you can!

A file is a Polish milling machine, used not for big jobs but for those occasions when all you need to remove is a couple of thousands of hard to get material that stands between you and your critics .....Conveniently named ( Bastard ) * the file, not the Critics

To Mr. Hale:

I am indeed a bit angry. Not at you, personally. I realize you've paid your dues too. It just seemed you were a bit flippant. I'm trying to survive. I'm serious.

The kind of answer I got from Mr. Hull is what I was looking for. Thank you Mr. Hull. Your advise will be put to use. You too Mr. Williams. I thank you both.

T. Massey

Mr.Massey..... You are absolutly right, I was totally off base and should not have taken a right turn from your original question... I truly apologize and will take these questions more in an adult vane when I choose to throw in my 2 cents.... These forums are to learn from and I tend to not take myself very seriously.. I'm a good artisian and knifemaker but my People skills are lacking and in need of work... respectfully.... Lloyd

Mr Hale please continue with your advise and humor. I have benefited from both. If seriousness was required for successful knife making Tom Mayo would still be waxing surfboards for a living.

Originally posted by aiiifish
Mr Hale please continue with your advise and humor. I have benefited from both.


I agree.
Makers donate their time here, free, usually after a hard day of working steel.
A sense of humor is a welcome thing, as is not taking one's self too seriously. ;) :D

I don't use a file for anything other than the filework on a blade spine.

I grind my clips by holding the blade vertically and use the bottom of my work wheel. By using the bottom of the belt grinder work wheel, you can see what you're doing. You're looking right down on it.

Lots of things are much easier to do if you grind against the bottom of the wheel. It doesn't matter if it's a straight or curved clip.

Pull a stool up to the grinder, sit down, and use the bottom of the wheel.

T. Massey, try it, you might like it. :)

Perhaps someone alread mentioned this and I missed it. If not, here is what I do if the clip is straight:
Grind the bevels as you normally do. Next, angle your workrest down to a very slight angle and clamp a piece of steel to it to be used as an extension (to bring it close to your platen). Check your angle by grinding on some scrap and adjust as necessary. All you have to do is slide your knife across your temporary workrest to get an angle that will match on both sides. This has worked very well for me.
If the clip is curved, I do it like Don just mentioned.

Mr. Bennett speaking from experience, if I was a young knifemaker and wanted to become a top knifemaker , I would get rid of any work rests where it comes to grinding a blade... Learn to grind free hand and train your arm,shoulder stomach , back muscles and eyes to grind the blade ...Any blade, no matter what the size and shape..... Some times a blade shape will require you to stand up and some will let you set down to grind them... You can shape any blade any style with your belt grinder.... just train your mind and muscles without the help of a crutch.... I use an 8 inch,5 inch and 3 inch contact wheel to grind my blades...I have a 12 inch 2 horse and a 9 inch one horse disc sander also for flat work these have plattens when i need them....

Mr. Hale,

I heartily agree that freehand grinding is the way to go. Other than profiling, grinding straight clips is the only time I use the workrest. Perhaps I am cheating a bit, but I haven't found a faster way to accurately do straight clips.

Hope you guy's don't mind me asking but i found this site and I'm really feeling kind of stupid,lol. Hope to start my second knife soon , my first was when i was 14 years old and now I'm 57. Retired with lot's of time and just want to learn a little before i start my knife.
What's the clip edge you are refering to on a bowie? Thanks for any replies and i will be going over to the new guy's place shortly. Just trying to take it all in. Thanks, Mike

:confused:

Hello Mike.. The clip or false edge of a Bowie knife or Hunting knife is the area on the top of the blade from the point back... its main purpose is to thin down the front half of the blade and reduces resistence while cutting..... Don't take too seriously what I was saying about the importance of the file in shaping the clip.. The grinding wheel does about 97 percent of the work and in a lot of cases 100 %......Welcome to Steve's Forum....He's a real Pro.

Loyd, Thank you for your fast and informative reply. Seems like a bunch of great people on herevwho are really willing to help out a new guy. Thanks again, Mike:)