I have a weird perspective of having sold/selling knives both as a collector and as a maker. I laways find it funny that as a individual selling a knife, I am expected to dicker a little bit. Even if the knife is reasonably priced, another buyer needs that emotional leeway that thinks they got a deal. Heck, I know the feeling. But as a maker, I set a price and that is the price it sells for, no questions asked. If someone bought one of my knives, then turned around and tried to sell it tomorrow, they would be expected to give a little. If a purveyor bought it, the price would be firm again. Do you think it is psychological? Everyone expects the maker to set his price based on materials, quality and demand. Everyone knows the purveyor usually gets a 25% discount from the maker, so they are never questioned. But the individual...in some cases I think they take the biggest hit, because not all knife lovers are affluent and some dole out hard earned cash to have a few knives. So has the "deal" mentality been a bane for the individual? Do you think the forums have contributed to that? Now everyone can see if a knife from a maker moves or not just by watching the for sale forums. I have a sub-hilt from Ricardo that I deeply discounted from his price and I haven't had a nibble. He is going to put it on his table at the Guild Show and I have a funny feeling it will sell for more than i want now.

Weird.

I think it comes down to that old addage "People allways seem to want something for nothing." I can't stand to see people try and dicker with a maker on the price of one of his/her knives!:mad: Thats just plain rudeness and verry distastfull.

May I chime in ... ?

First of all ...
If you allow yourself to talk about price with the client before you've fully established the intricate value of an object, service or whatever, you'll no doubt find yourself dickering a lot. I don't care what you're selling, or for what selling price.

Here's a fact that I can prove with "your" own experience ...
"Every man will pay FULL price for something if "one" condition is met first!"

... can anyone guess what this one condition is?


Alex

I have one person that wants to see everything I make. She has a $250 knife of mine and a $125 early knife of mine. Now when I show her a new one and tell her the price is $350 she wants to trade the two knives for the new one and me give her $25 in change. I have not allowed this to happen and explained to her that I want to SELL knives, NOT get them back. She agreed but always wants the latest and greatest so she still tries once in a while. I stopped showing her the new stuff to avoid the explanation every time. I am glad she wants my knives but it is frustrating to have someone try to trade like that ALL THE TIME. It would be different if I wanted the knives back but I don't.

Complete SATISFACTION !
This , however, is not just selling a knife.
It is selling YOURSELF, and making the costomer the focus of attention.

I make special knives.
Shouldn't the people who buy them be "JUST" as special ?

GrandPa taught me that a "BARGAIN" is when BOTH people are happy, the price becomes "illrelavent".

TWO QUESTIONS.
1- What makes YOUR knives different?
2- What makes your CUSTOMERS different?
Everything else goes back to the same old problems.

We ALL trade our hours for dollars somehow.

A doctor asked me if I would take 1/2 price for one of my knives.
"SURE", I responded, "As long as I only have to pay half price when I take my family of seven to see you next week, I have been looking for a 1/2 priced doctor for a long time now."

I'm glad he laughed. :)
This doctor owns several of my knives today and has NEVER asked for a discount again. He just needed to relate that this is my living, not a hobby. Thank you....BE BLESSED!......

You guys are missing my point. I am not talking about the maker's selling their own knives. Most people don't try to deal down a maker (exeptions being multiple knife purchases or at the end of a show). What I am talking about is that the same knife that a maker or pruveryor sells for $500, will be expected to be discounted if an individual tries to sell same knife. As great as the internet has been for all of us in general, the ability for everyone to see knife deals happen and guage prices is there on the screen. It goes beyond an educated buyer. There are individuals who always have to dump a knife due to financial need and that brings the expectation of others to get a deal on every knife that is sold by an individual, bar the flavor of the month knives that are hot at the moment.

dogman, I wonder if the mentality behaind what you are saying is the used car mentality?

A car on the lot is 500 bucks. Joe buys it drives it home and it's only worth 300 now to any perspective buyer.

Same as a garage sale. Item is a dollar at the garage sale but 100 bucks in the antique store.

ghostdog

Ghost,

You certainly nailed a major factor, that's for sure! ... I'd sum that part up under the terms of "value perspective".

Dog,

Yes, I did miss that point. The first thought I had was an image of a maker getting haggled at a show, which I've personally seen.

Actually, the point I was going to make has no bearing on who you are on the selling end. If a person fails to understand it, not only will they always be in the "haggling wars", but will allow people to buy from them in such as way as to reduce their perception of the object being bought, even if their offer is taken.

To close my point above, which never was approached:

"Here's a fact that I can prove with "your" own experience ...
"Every man will pay FULL price for something if "one" condition is met first!"

... can anyone guess what this one condition is?"

Answer:
"He or She must ... WANT IT ... more than anything else than they can think of right at that moment!"

Now, like 99.99% of people who will read that statement and move right on in life, without understanding the significance of it, never giving it a thought of how it might affect their next negotiation, don't blame me if you get dickered to death and end up with luke-warm customer satisfaction for the rest of your life.

Failing to stop on every sale startup, moving past the "value building" aspects of the process will hurt you every time, and will force you to "sell on price" alone. In Walmart, that's OK! But, when you're selling handmade art, understand it is like no other work beside, in front or behind it. It is completly unique unto itself. Therefore, you must ignore price talk until you have fully presented the piece in all it's glory.

Anything less, answering price questions up front mostly, only tells guys like me, particularly, one thing about you as a seller of your work ... that is, you are willing to allow a customer to place all the value of your work on the price of it. If you do that, you are not only hurting the customer by failing to show them the true value of the work, but you are placing them in a position of having more knowledge of your work than you do. " uh ... I know all I think I need to know about that knife, Mr Maker, will you take 50% off for it? (in their mind they're saying ... it looks just like the one down the row from xyz, it must be pretty much the same.)

Here's the end point ...

I'll never try to haggle a man, if what he has is something I "really want right now" and perceive that "I can't do without it", for any reason.

If I think I can buy it like a "dime a dozen item", we'll most likely be looking for the lowest priced deal!

Has anyone ever considered that having a knife for sale that was owned previously, may be worth even more than the original price paid? ...

Could someone offer a reason that would make this true?

Alex

Alex, what you say is true....but. And the but goes to belief. The best sales people are those who believe in their product above all similar products.
If a knifemaker has any doubt in his own mind about a particular knife or all his knives, that doubt will be picked up on a subconcious level by a perspective buyer.
I ahve a friend who sells cars, used cars, and he makes a good living doing it. He is also the easiest guy in town to sell a car too for other salesmen.

ghostdog

I hear where you guys are coming from. As a dealer myself, I have to scratch my head also sometimes. I have plenty of people who come and look at my site, say wow nice site, but don't buy. I am at a loss. I mean 200 people may come to my site in a day and no one buys a knife. Why? It is confusing at times

Ghost,

Understood ...

That's because your friend only buys cars from equal or better salesmen than himself.

The premise holds true, "when the value exceeds the cost by 1 cent, in your mind, you perceive a good deal" ... regardless of price.

Alex

Hey Dog,

Unlike Makers and Dealers, individuals are not perceived as knives providing their salary.

When an individual sells a knife, most buyers feel that the individual is selling the knife for "quick cash". You see that all the time on BF. People lower the price before the first person makes an offer on it.

Never pay full price to a desperate salesman.

If you haven't been haggled with yet, it just means you haven't been to enough shows.

Some people just love to haggle over price and they will not buy until they think they have gotten the best of you.

Paul,

You have to understand about web sites. For a lot of those people visiting, they are just window shopping. For others, you just don't have the knife they are looking for.....today.

The "man" is back!

Hey Les :) Good to see you partner!

Alex

A consumer perspective:

1. I will look at some of the websites that sell custom knives everyday. This does not mean that I will sepnd money on evey visit. I may be passing time while I hold on the phone at work (or during a conference call....).

I do look just about every day because you never know when Les or Patrick will have just the knife I want - and I may have some money to spend.

I also keep looking because this is how I learn about knives and what I like - websites are more available and updated more frequently than magazines. This is a form of entertainment in the same way as TV.

I do not look to find out "comparative" prices as I do not think that this helps in the custom business. The price quoted on a site is related to the aspirations of the site owner and their terms and conditons. When I see a knife that I WANT (not just like), then the price and T&Cs become of interest.

2. Selling knives is no different to selling any other item. Custom knives start with an advantage that they are either unique or one of a limited number if they are a standard pattern from a maker. This is something that should never be under-played.

Most of the people selling on Bladefoums etc are conditioned to be buyers - not sellers. From that point of view they will focus the deal on price and be prepared to lower the price to gain "the deal". They have no concept of value pricing and are only used to selling "second-hand" items for much less than they paid at garage sales etc. For most people getting back 25% of what you paid for a item is great news. Why should you get back 100% or more? This mentality is great if you wish to buy from these people.

3. The only person I try to haggle with is Les because it is a challenge and I like to bang my head against the wall......

Regards,

Ed

ps - sorry for the long post...

Ed,

Well stated!

Something of interest ... I just finished feeding Les' site into KnifeSeek to get it indexed in the search engine. Man, that thing is deeeeeeeep in knives! :)

You're right. The web is basically 45 days ahead of even the fastest magazine publisher. Any sharp webmaster, keeping his content updated quickly, can bring knives to the market almost immediatly.

Alex