I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this question ...

I realize that this could appear to be opening a Pandora's box, but I have a powerful reason for asking such a question, which I will disclose later! All I want is one answer from everyone, if possible. If you have two candidates, pick the one you would stand your reputation on.

If you are scared to answer for fear of reprisal, do it anonymously ... but give some answer, please.

In doing so, you'll be a part of one of the greatest discovery threads you'll ever witness ... I assure you!

Tell me now:

"In your opinion, who is the 'greatest custom maker' in history?"



:smokin:

Alex

D'HOLDER

H.H. Frank

Alex, you just opened the lid on that ole box,hey everyone, don't be worried about someone that is gonna retaliate because of your opinion, after all beauty is in the eye of the beholder or something like that:)
John Nelson Cooper

THATS EASY!!
THE FIRST ONE!!!!!!:D

Ok here goes...

W.F MORAN
IMHO

Man ... this is awesome. Eric, for a minute there, I thought you were a genius.

Next?

Alex

Gots to be ;-) Nah too hard to say, like lots of good makers, can say favorites, can't say best

Peace

Paul
Custom Knife Purveyor
Circle P Knives (http://www.circlepknives.com/)

Weigh in men ... don't be afraid!

I'm not going to the next part, until we get some more posts here ...

:smokin:

Alex

C'mon guys this is KILLING me.....

I'm terrible at waiting :(

Well, in my opinion it an Arkasas maker who should be known to most of you.

His name is Ron Newton. He can do anything with any steel. You want it you can get it from Ron.

Gary :rollin:

Guys,

This thread is turning into a popularity contest. As most of you list names and do not list why they are the "Best Custom Knife Maker" in history.

First, if they only make folders or fixed blades and not both. They are out of the competiton. Ron Lake makes an incredible interframe, however that is all he makes, the same model, over and over.

Probably you should break it down by catagory.

Fixed Blades:

Buster Warenski
Fred Carter

Folders:

Michael Walker
H.H. Frank

I list these 4 makers because of their abilities to do all aspects of or incorporate all apects into their work. These makers can work not only steel, but all manner of handle material, inlay's and engraving. While to my knowledge, none forge Damascus, I have every confidence they could if they desired to do so.

Honorable mention list:

Fixed Blades,

Herman Schneider
Wolfgang Loechner
Steve Johnson

Folders,

Ron Lake
Steve Hoel
Rick Eaton

D'Holder makes a good knife, but even he would admit he is not the best maker in the world.

Bill Moran, gets all the credit in the world for the re-introduction of Damascus. However, even he would agree he is not the best "ever". Neither is Bob Loveless. Do not confuse contributions to the knife community with ability.

So when you put a makers name on this list include why you think they are the best. Remember you are saying this one maker is the best that has ever lived. Personally, I don't any of us know who that person is.

Also, if you don't know who the makers listed above are, your not doing your homework.

Hard to jump in after what Les just said....But (and this is with out even handled any of them) I belive Bo Randall has a thing or two to say in this. I think He made some of the best fighting knives around WW2.

Ok I am biased since pictures of his work turned me into a knifemaker many years ago.

"Fear not men ... least ye be condemned to a life of blind servitude!"

I'm using this thread to open an issue. The subject of which, I think you will all find to be highly enlightening in the end. Of course, what I'm seeing is exactly what I wanted ... so, we are "dead-on course" with this discovery exercise.

I'm quite pleased, actually! Keep the answers coming ...

I only wish I could lock this thread from "lurkers". It should be a given that you have to join the exercise to gain the reward of it's discovery! You'll understand more about that later ...

Alex

PS - "Assumptions are deadly. They are the biggest factor in performance limitation that exist."

I am not normally short of an opinion on pretty much any subject, but I have hesitated to offer any thoughts so far on this question.
Firstly because any answer can only be subjective unless one has handled hundreds, if not thousands of custom knives and tried to view each one objectively.
Secondly because it's so easy to let fashion or short-term memory answer the question, as in "Ooh I saw this great Alex Whetsell knife the other day, yeah he must be the best :) "
And thirdly because I'm English and the whole custom knife scene is 90% or more an American phenomenon, like the funny variant of rugby you play :) .

But, now I'm here, let me offer a name for the pot. Howard Hitchmough. I first saw and handled one of his sub-hilt fighters about 15 years ago and I recall the difference in the lines and the quality over anything else I had previously seen. Now he makes folders and very nice looking they are too. Never handled one though, so I'm back to my reservations on answering...

Roger

Roger,

I nominate you for the "CKD Master of Communicative Evasion Award!" :)

I'm not so sure that I didn't just learn something myself there ... thank you!

Alex

Hey thanks Alex, I get an award! :)

Well, it's election year here, probably 5th May for the vote. Think I could work PR for some scummy politician? :lol:

Seriously though, I think all most of us can do is throw in a FAVOURITE or two. To offer a really informed opinion one probably needs to have BOUGHT and/or sold a lot of custom knives, so I'm reserving judgement even further.

But for the sake of having a favourite I'll still nominate Hitchmough.

Roger

Eric got it! I nominate "Grog" 100,000 BC who invented the first knife! :) only half joking!

Men ... help me get everyone on the boards to post a comment here. It's very important that we have a large pool of responses to build the exercise with.

This whole thread is designed to uncover something very important to us all ... you'll see!

Alex :smokin:

Jerry, how much do you think a "Grog original" is trading for now days? ;) I might have to get me one of those baby's ...

Alex; that's somewhat of an open ended question! Best custom maker in what regard or category? This could cover a lot of ground. I live in the sticks and rarely make it to any big shows, so have handled but few in person, so can only base my opinion on photos more that anything.
Artistically; I really go for the work of JL Jensen.
Clean lines/usable design/fit & finish; I like the looks of S. Johnson's work.

Still many other categories that could cover "best", like rustic, reproduction work, most ornate, most knowlegable, etc, etc.

Since this is such an open ended question, and the way you seem to be leading up to something here....I anxiously await...

Steve

Hi Jens,

Regarding Bo Randall, actually he made no knives during world war II, his company did. Bo made his last knife for sale in 1939. He did make some as gifts.

You have to remember, Bo owned paper mills in Michigan, Orange Groves in Orlando and raised cattle there as well.

The knife thing was just a minor side line for a very talented business man.

Again, don't confuse contributions with abililty. Im waiting to see Bill Scagel's name on this list next.

Howard Hitchmough makes some incredible knives. That reminded me of a maker I forgot, D.F. Kressler. He integral sub hilt fighters are without peer.

Guys from here on out, most of the names that will be put on here fall into the "popularity contest" portion of this thread.

Well guys I'm not an experienced maker and don't know a lot of the good makers but I Got interested in making knives from an uncle of mine that lived in kansas until his death a little over a year ago, Max smith is his name and he made mostly hunters and bowie knives, he would buy the cheap folder knives and discard the blades and handles to make his own, he didn't make the hard parts tho,Max started making damascus shortly before his untimely death,and was doing an excellent job in my opinion. Realizing I am bias in my opinion and limited in my knowledge I will nominate Max Smith. Thanks Mike Sader

Yes my post is bias also.Alex ask for one and I gave him one.Moran,Scagel,D'Holder,Engnath,Loveless,all the ole greats and new ones too are my favorites.But too me there was something about D'Holder that always caught my eye and sparked the interest in me too make my own.So whether he was able to do all the work and embellishing himself or not is another matter.

Les...you got me there allright. I did not know. Anywho I like the stuff his company made...

Regarding Howard Hitchmough.. he was a name unknown to me untill last month when a customer sent me one of his fixed blade knives. There was some detailing in the filework and liners surrounding them he wanted me to make on a knife. I must say that the knife is top notch.

Please check this link for an article about Randall (or the company?) This was in an old issue of Popular mecanisc just after the war: ansoknives.com/popular.htm (http://ansoknives.com/popular.htm)

OK Alex,
You obviuosly want to get down to the "nitty gritty" here. I don't know where you're headed with this one, but it could go anywhere.

Best "custom maker" in history ...?

I don't mean to split hairs, but are you talking custom or handmade knives first of all? "Custom" really slims the category down by definition. Then are you asking about the man or the knives? I know some great makers who make mediocre knives and some rude makers who made great knives.
"Best" also needs definition - best at what he does? all around? (all kinds of knives) best quality, ability, variety, specialty, etc.?
I know the question doesn't sound complicated, but WOW!!
How many avenues could it take?
Awards don't always recognize the greatest. At best, awards record specific achievements.

Jerry Fisk is called a living legend because of his achievements. I think it's safe to say Ron Newton, Bill Moran, Hugh Bartug and many others could be considered legend as well. Does that mean they build the best, set the standards or become the building blocks or stepping stones for the makers of today and beyond?
Are they great because they possess skill and knowledge? Are they great because they pass on what they learn? Because they were pioneers? Or because of their passion?
Zigler said "One man with a passion will accomplish more that a thousand with an interest."

There are too many great names in the history of knifemaking to isolate just one. History changes everyday with new "bests" all the time.

I would have to say it would have to be the one who not only learned the most, did the most, and passed the most on to promote one's craft. Variety, style, consistency, innovations and personality have to be put into each piece produced to be the best. Producing one thing over and over (IMHO) does not begin to qualify for best.
You could have asked who is most famous, most decorated or even most dedicated, but greatest in history is tough. Especially with history changing daily.

Yesterday's best is now better. Today's best will soon be replaced tomorrow.

Some are good with hands, others machines, others still design best and so on...

Millions of materials, makers, designs, styles, and mixes of each and all of the above will be existing for the future of knifemaking. As will the effects of forums such as the CKD for information about our craft. Thousands of people all over the world are being introduced to the craft today; tomorrow thousands more.
The greates (or best) custom maker in history would have to be the one inside each of us who daily seek to stretch the envelope of what "custom" knifemaking can be.
The names will pass as well as styles and trends. Yet what endures is the "spirit" or "soul" left in their work.
The greatest is not the one who makes the most, best or fanciest. It's the one who puts his soul in his work and he will be recognized by his work.
I think the best or greatest custom maker is in all of us trying to get out.

You guys wait until I'm too busy to visit before you get off into these fascinating threads. :)

For now please let me echo what Gene just said. There's no way I could have said it any better.

THIS IS A DUMB QUESTION!!! THERE IS NO ONE OUT THERE QUALIFIED TO MAKE SUCH A JUDGEMENT. THIS WILL BE ONLY THAT PERSON'S OPINION. LES ROBERTSON HAS BROUGHT UP SOME VERY GOOD NAMES BUT DO THEY MAKE GREAT KNIVES OR JUST WORKS OF ART???. IN ORDER TO DETERMINE WHO IS THE GREATEST KNIFE MAKER WE MUST FIRST DETERMINE WHAT IS A GREAT KNIFE. ITS IT BEAUTY- FUNCTION- RELIABILITY- PERFORMANCE- SIZE- OR MONITORY VALUE. CAN IT STAND THE TEST OF TIME. LOOK AT SOME OF THE OLD ARTIST WHO COULD NOT SELL THEIR WORK DURING THERE LIFE TIME AND ARE NOW CONSIDERED MASTERS. HERE ARE A COUPLE OF NAMES TO THROW OUT MICHEAL PRICE, WILLIAM ROGERS, W.W.CRONK.

MY ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IS "I HOPE HE/SHE HASN'T BEEN BORN YET"

Remember ... "make a ladder first, before you dig the well!"

Oh, this is going to be funnnnnnn! Fun I tell you ... :smokin:

Alex

Rade,

There is no such thing as a dumb question. When we speak of the best custom knife maker(s). Personally, I look at the overall body of work. Buster Warenski can make a great hunter. However, creating art pieces at the other end of the spectrum is a different matter. As 99.9% of the makers today cannot match Buster's work in this area.

So you are correct in that you must view the totality of the makers body of work. Buster is one of very few who can do it all.

On the folder side of the house, is there really anyone who can touch Michael Walker? Again, I have seen Michael's work range from tactical folders through absolutley mind boggling perfection at the art end of the spectrum.

Awards are nice, but as Harvey Dean once pointed out to me (after having won 4 awards at one show), "it's nice to get them, just wish you could eat them or put them in the bank".

Having judged my fair share of competition's I can tell you that not all those selected to judge know what they are looking at. A show out west a few years ago had a 15 year old girl as a judge. He "body of knowledge" was based on the fact that she had watched her Daddy make knives in his shop.

So for those of you who win, don't thump your chest to hard. For those of you who lose, don't take it to hard. Ive designed knives that won "best of show" at 5 different knife shows. I didn't even get a trophy!

For years I entered competitons for best custom knife display. My displays won over 40 awards in numerous states. Where are those trophies today, in a landfill near Sierra Vista, Arizona. They were donated to that prestigious spot prior to the Army moving me to the Republic of South Korea and my wife and daughter moving to an apartment in central Illinois.

There was no room, couldn't eat them, couldn't put them in the bank. Quite frankly, if you are really out to win an award, much like getting knives in knife magazines, it's easy to do. So don't give to much weight to awards. Focus on the quality of the knife.

Geno,

If you were to ask Jerry Fisk if he were a living ledgend, he would tell you absolutley not. In the same breath though he would tell you that Bill Moran is. In the ABS world, Bill Moran is the center. In about 30 years when Bill finally retires, Jerry Fisk will become the center of the ABS world.

They both share the one thing that has amazed me since I have known them. They may be the two most humble ledgends you will ever meet.

Currently, there are 3 living ledgends in custom knives.

Bill Moran
George Herron
Bob Loveless

Jerry Fisk, is without a doubt the "complete package". He can make the entire range of knives. He is patient with those who seek his advice, he is forthcoming with knowledge to any and all who will ask. When in doubt he will defer to others with more expertise, he always seeks "wise council" and on top of that he is for sure the most astute business man among the knife makers in the ABS. Perhaps among all the knife makers.

Lets not cloud the issue with Custom V Custom. All the makers I have listed have made plenty of both and their resume's speak for themselves.

As Rade has pointed out, there is no one alive today who can truly state without a doubt who is the best custom maker who has ever lived.

I guess in need an asterick by my names. Im just going to go with the last 101 years.

Michael Price and W.W. Cronk were very gifted makers. Cronk was years ahead of his time in his designs and concepts. However, his work was not among the best ever. Michael Price's work, exceptional, but again, not the best in the last 101 years.

For those of you commenting here. If you have never seen Buster Warenski, Fred Carter, DF Kressler, Wolfgang Loechner, Michael Walker, HH Frank, Steve Hoel and Rick Eatons work. I would ask you to look at a cross section of their work before you post your favorite here.

I have looked at a few knives in the last 16 years. These gentlemen produce perfection in steel. I just wish they would make some tactical knives!

I know for me it is not the makers name that someone gives me as being a great maker, but why the person thinks they are a great maker.

I think we've gathered enough input for me to make my point now.

I'll be posting my answer later tonight!

Alex

PS - Bring your hardhats, boys ... cause some walls are going to crumble out here tonight. :)

About time.
Men with sharp instruments are waiting to hear what you have to say Alex... :)

Roger

Could this have to do with a certain custom maker turned production designer with his own company that has made this claim recently?

No ... but, I'd be willing to hear that joke!

Alex

I can't really say who is the best "custom maker" in history, and don't think anyone could. The only thing I can comment on is the aesthetic value to me of all the makers' blades that I have seen, there is one maker who's work has continually astonished me with its beauty, and that is Don Fogg. The Best? I don't know, but no other makers work has the impact on me that his does.

Kris M

Gentlemen ...

The answer I promised ...

"Show me the man or woman who is the least willing to accept "anything less than personal perfection" in their creation over the life of their career and I'll show you the person who history "will" define as the "best" custom maker ever born!"

Names like Warenski, Johnson, Fogg, Loveless and any others who have excelled to the level that they would warrant your vote as to their personal achievements are defined by the degree to which they have followed the above formula in their quest for "personal high-performance" in this art!

Now ... you might wonder, why would I start something as ambiguous as to ask a question that has such an open-ended answer as this. Well, understand that I care about what happens to "you", to "us" and to this industry we are creating together. I proposed this question to all of us in order to open a line of thought that might create a profound result in one of us if we understand the point, and understand it clearly!

The "best" custom maker in history, literally "CAN BE YOU", but only if you understand what it means and how to go about it's pursuit. Here's another piece of fundamental law: "This world will pay us exactly what we ask of it ... but, nothing more!"

Now, let's all seek out maximum personal high-performance in what we do and to each man's degree of consistency, let him be judged.

But, I'm here to tell you that no man can hold that reward from "you", if you desire it the most! No man ...!

Now, let's get busy...
The next time you make a knife, try this: Start out knowing that you will be unwilling to accept anything on this one piece that is not your personal best performance ever. I don't care what it takes. Lay it down, if you get tired and frustrated. Pick it back up when you feel that you can resume the process. But, go in with the knowledge that "absolute perfection" is the only goal you will accept before you call it "finished". If you will do this and stick to this creative goal with absolution, I assure you that you will suddenly realize what it "is" that separates the "big boys" from everyone else. Not only that, but you will create the "best" work you have ever produced as a result ... a personal "Masterpiece", in fact!

The "best" is not a talent that has to be granted by God at birth. The "best" is a reward for the willingness to tap, within ourselves, the ability to bring forth with our hands only that which our minds can conceive ... "Perfection". Understand that no man is condemned to the inability to see flaws in their work. We are only condemned to be willing to accept them, if we so choose! To the level at which you are willing to abandon the pursuit, is the level at which you define your existence.

Anyone willing to disagree? :smokin:

Alex

My favorite would be Bill Scagel.He was an artist way before his time.

ALEX,
Thanks for the pep talk,sometimes they can go a long way.
Especially for this newbie,with so many 'established makers' it gets discouraging.Practice,practice,and more practice.:D

Well, Mr. Robertson said it, Scagel.
There can be only one!

The answer to the question is obvious to everyone who has bought a custom made knife in which they are completely satisfied. It is simply the maker who produced the knife
that you had in mind before the order was made. Though this sounds a little ambiguous, each of us who has completely satisfied a customer is the best custom maker for that particular person.

Hey Alex. My vote goes to W.W. Cronk. Man was a genius.:) Mark

I know nothing about the man, but W.W. Cronk is my vote. Awsome knives. Mark Hazen

Oh, that's an easy question. Without any doubt:

Pierre Reverdy, France.

Achim

Man that was deep Alex. You think like an artist.

The best knifemaker ever anywhere is Don Fogg. The totally cool part is his sharing attitude on top of his abilities.

I just reread this thread. Boy it is good reading!

And it's good to know that the Don Fogg knife I just purchased has someone else's approvals! :)

I think Alex's final comment is VERY well-put. I'm listening. Thanks.

Coop

Cellini

As the saying goes, do not fear perfection as you will never attain it.

Having judged at more shows than I can remember. I can tell you every knife has a mistake....no matter how slight. Each maker knows where this mistake is.

Many times when I judge, the knives entered are so good. The winner is picked based on fewest mistakes.

Instead of perfection, improve on every knife.
Don't worry about becoming the best maker ever. Concentrate on becoming the best maker you can.

The best knife maker ever? There will never be an agreement on that.

Question? Are you basing this on pure skill as a knife maker?

Or are you giving points for innovation, teaching and influnce on custom knives.

First you have to set the criteria. So far this thread is nothing but a popularity contest.

Don't feel bad, most threads like this usually are. As are the Up and coming makers and Bang for the Buck threads.

For those of you out there reading this, how man Scagels have you actually held? What about Loveless's knives, or Cronks or Warenski's or Johnson's?

What about D.E Henry, Billy Imel, Gray Taylor, Doug Casteel, David Broadwell, Willie Rigney, Herman Schneider, Michael Walker, Ron Lake, John W. Smith, Jerry Fisk, H.H. Frank, Ray Appleton, Wolf Loechner, Jim Ence, Fred Carter, and other's that are not coming to mind right now.

There are so many incredible knife makers out there. I think it would be next to impossible to say only one is the best.
Even in a particular category or style it would be almost impossible to pick.
I've been at this for a while and have handled more than my fair share of custom knives. I have only been able to narrow it down by price range. This does not make them the best in that style, just that style and price. Even that is open to healthy debate.

Best knife maker ever? Not a clue. Most influencel to me. I am with Jens, Bo Randall. The first time i ever saw an old grainy photo of a model one i said "oooooooh, I wanna make a knife like that!'

Greatest knifemaker ever...probably some anonymous gent in the Middle or Far East about 1000 years ago...

or some anonymous dude with a couple rocks knapping flint a little more than a million years ago.

Best knifemaker currently alive? I'd say Jim Batson, but I'm prejudiced.

Best knifemaker 10 years from now? Me. Unless one of y'all is even better. :D

Originally posted by Coop747
I just reread this thread. Boy it is good reading!

And it's good to know that the Don Fogg knife I just purchased has someone else's approvals! :)

You've got mine too, for what it's worth. Pic, mighty please?

Personally, I am more inspired as a collector and hobbyist by Don Fogg than by anyone else - but in truth I have limited experience even as a collector, so most of those amazing makers I've not seen "in vivo" yet. Even Don's work, I haven't seen more than half a dozen other than in pics.

Les, you mentioned Dietmar Fressler - what do you think about another maker steming from the Germanic heritage, Hill Knives?

Thanks,

JD

Hi Joss,

DF Kressler is another superb knife maker.

Id love to get one of his integral Sub-Hilt Fighters.

Oh well, perhaps after my kids graduate college.

Les,

If you don't already know them (I'm sure you do), you need to check Hill Knives, in Holland: http://www.hillknives.com/

I can't resist posting a couple pics...

http://www.hillknives.com/Images/hill41.jpg

http://www.hillknives.com/Images/hill17.jpg

Ralph Bone gets my vote, followed by the old master, Bo Randall