View Full Version : How would you?


ghen
03-14-2003, 06:55 PM
Put L.E.D.s in/onto bali handles?

tonyccw
03-14-2003, 07:12 PM
Which way are they facing? The flat portion, the edge, or the handle ends?

ghen
03-14-2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by tonyccw
Which way are they facing? The flat portion, the edge, or the handle ends?

Yes, yes, and yes:D

Peace

GHEN

tonyccw
03-14-2003, 07:19 PM
Handle ends: drill a hole to seat the LED; a groove to run the wire; and then you'll have to cut out a cup to seat the button battery, on the underside of each handle; and a small button switch on the top. Trick is to secure the battery so it won't fall out, touch any of the handle steel, and be easily replacable; and to make sure you can isolate the negative and positive lead.

Handle edge: same as handle end, but stagger the LED's so that it provides enough depth for each LED to fit into the handle.

Handle flats: I'll have to get back to you.

BaliXpert
03-15-2003, 12:17 AM
putting LED's into a handle? wow... now thats creative... post pictues of the finished product eh... that would look pretty trippy flipping it in the dark with green LED's man:D...

ghen
03-15-2003, 03:04 PM
Well this is just an idea I had. I'm not too great with the mechanical stuff, but I thought it would make an interesting thread. Several jurisdictions have banned me from using a soldering iron :p

If anybody wants to do it, feel free, I won't hack on anyone for "stealing my idea".

PEACE

GHEN

tonyccw
03-15-2003, 03:19 PM
And having been giving it more thought, I suspect the best handle material would be either Micarta or G-10. Both were designed as electrical insulation, and would work great as the base to start this project. All with a SS baseplate to add weight.

ExamonLyf
03-15-2003, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by tonyccw
Balisongs. One of lifes simpler pleasures.

Are you the same Tony that said that....lol :)...???????

tonyccw
03-15-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by ExamonLyf
Are you the same Tony that said that....lol :)...??????? It's a labor love, Pete... Pleasure has many prices... :D

BaliXpert
03-16-2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by tonyccw
And having been giving it more thought, I suspect the best handle material would be either Micarta or G-10. Both were designed as electrical insulation, and would work great as the base to start this project. All with a SS baseplate to add weight.

i was also thinking that you could use a switch rather then a button for the flow of power... if drilled properly it would look really good... awell as enabling the lights to stay on during a pass or a throw...

tonyccw
03-16-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by BaliXpert
i was also thinking that you could use a switch rather then a button for the flow of power... The button I recommended is meant as an On/Off switch, not a constant pressure type. They make them now as thin as 1/16", which is critical since each handle slab is no more than 3/16". You can always leave the button raised on top of the handle, but that would get in the way of the grip. What would really be cool would be a way to route the leads through the pivot system so that one button switch activates all the LED's...

ghen
03-16-2003, 03:22 PM
What about Lucite or Polycarbonate handles with a SS base? Then one could mount them from the inside, and still have a smooth surface to hold.

tonyccw
03-16-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by ghen
What about Lucite or Polycarbonate handles with a SS base? Actually, if you imbed the LED's right, a Lucite handle can be used like a fiber optic lens and really show off the light source... On the down side, the clairty of Lucite shows the working innards. Not sure how appealing that would be...

Osprey Guy
03-16-2003, 08:47 PM
Rather than use L.E.D.'s might I suggest taking a look at the following:

http://www.ckdforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12170

Seems to me that pretty well gets you the same, cool effect without the need for batteries and switches...

Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!:smokin

ghen
03-16-2003, 10:01 PM
I have a lot of experience with tritium, it won't put out the light an LED is capable of.

BUT

Thanks Dennis!

AlphalphaPB
03-17-2003, 12:08 AM
You could try using a coil and magnet system to generate small amounts of electricity (probably enough to power a small LED). Check out the perpetual flashlights that you have to shake to produce light. If not enough power is being generated, perhaps a capacitor could be fitted in at the end of the handle.

Sounds like an interesting idea. The combination of conductive handles, electrical resistor handle inserts like G10, and shock-resistant electronic parts like capacitors and LEDS really give you a lot to play around with.

relayer66
03-17-2003, 07:58 AM
instead of isolating the positive and negative leads, you could use the metal in the handles for ground (like an automobile uses the chassis).
how about laser LED's like alembic uses in the fingerboards of their electric basses?
also, it would be interesting to use the latch as the switch...when the latch is opened, the LED's would turn on. this would work better with a spring latch, so the switch wouldn't be flopping around, otherwise you could have it as a botton in the safe handle which is depressed by the latch to turn off.
just some ideas...:)

tonyccw
03-17-2003, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by relayer66
instead of isolating the positive and negative leads, you could use the metal in the handles for ground (like an automobile uses the chassis). Let's hope you don't step on something that works better as a ground ;)
also, it would be interesting to use the latch as the switch...when the latch is opened, the LED's would turn on. otherwise you could have it as a botton in the safe handle which is depressed by the latch to turn off.
just some ideas...:) I like it. More reason to figure out how to interlink the leads within the pivot system.

relayer66
03-17-2003, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by tonyccw
Let's hope you don't step on something that works better as a ground ;)


i think most of the laser pointers you see, also flashlights, use the case for ground. we're only talking about 2 or 3 watch batteries here, maybe 9V max, but then again if you throw a capacitor in the mix you could be dealing with some high voltages. still, it's not like electricity in the home which can go through you and back to ground. the only path for the voltage to return is back to the battery. nothing is plugged into the wall here (though that would be a high powered bali!).
using the handles for ground would circumvent the need to interconnect through the pivots. and the worst that would happen, you'd end up with a bali-taser!:smokin

tonyccw
03-17-2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by relayer66
using the handles for ground would circumvent the need to interconnect through the pivots. True about the common ground for the flashlight. And since those only have 9Vs of power, it's not enough to hurt anyone by itself. But how do you propose to power the other 3 handles if they don't share a common power lead?

relayer66
03-17-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by tonyccw
But how do you propose to power the other 3 handles if they don't share a common power lead?

you're right. i don't have an obvious answer, besides independent circuits on each side.

tonyccw
03-17-2003, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by relayer66
you're right. i don't have an obvious answer, besides independent circuits on each side. Right. Now imagine what happens when all 4 independent power supply comes together using a common uninsulated ground. ;)

wrathlord
03-17-2003, 10:59 AM
How about no switch,use your hand to comlpete the circut.All you'd have to do is hold it,and the lights will shine.Paul Fox made a mechanical(motor) operated folder awhile back,used this type of "switch". It had two small metal contact points exposed on one side of the handles,when you grabbed it ,the blade opened.I'm sure the same type of set up will work for LED's.

tonyccw
03-17-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by wrathlord
How about no switch,use your hand to comlpete the circut.All you'd have to do is hold it,and the lights will shine.That would work only if the user doesn't move his hand. Which with a balisong, is a rare occurance. Especially if one wants to take advantage of the LED's and perform a light show. Then again, with the amount of contact and re-contact, it couls prove interesting with the turning on and off of the lights.

Darrel Ralph
03-17-2003, 12:14 PM
How about 220v 3 phase?
YIKES:eek: :evil

Off and on switch sounds like it would work well.

neo733c
03-17-2003, 01:51 PM
I have a yomega strobe yo which is a yo- yo with two leds they're turned on by touching two small contacts and then stay on for about 2.5 minutes

here you see the contacts at the bottom
http://btdt.home.mtneer.net/yo1.jpg
this shows the backside
http://btdt.home.mtneer.net/yo2.jpg

tonyccw
03-17-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by neo733c
I have a yomega strobe yo which is a yo- yo with two leds they're turned on by touching two small contacts and then stay on for about 2.5 minutesOhhh.... A time lapse contact switch. I like the idea. Need to see what type of capacitor that would require....

BaliXpert
03-17-2003, 06:03 PM
heres a thought... if placing the LED's in the handles... let the tips stick out mabye a millimeter or 2... that way if you were to place 6 to 8 or so on a side they could also provide some grip? They wouldnt break seeing as most LED's ive used are VERY HARD to physically break... lol... a couple days ago i went out and bought those mini neon light tube things from the dollar store and taped them to the handles just to see how it would (kinda) look... and it was pretty cool:)...

Mark_Henry
03-18-2003, 07:49 AM
Ghen,

Check out Chicago Lamps' line of miniature gull wing LEDs. These things are small and only draw 20ma at 1.2v. They're also designed for a flat installation and close fit wire runs.

For the handles think stacked G10. It's self-insulating. Simply buy a PCB (Printed Circuit Board) etching kit from Radio Shack (about $20USD) to create the wire runs and stack those within the layers of the handle.

Alternately, use metal handles as the negative conductor, then mount the wire run on the G10 and epoxy toi the inside of the handle - you'll need to mill out an equal amount of metal to keep the blade sitting correctly.

Each handle will power its own LEDS - so, you need to have a power supply on each side, as well as as a switch on each side. The power supply is straight forward enough, stacked watch batteries - I'd put 1 or 2 in each end of the handle to balance the weight, otherwise you'll end up with the handles being butt heavy.

As for the switch, build your own. Simply mill a small slice of copper in the shape of an "L" layer it within the layers of the G10 on the main wire run from the positive pole of the battery to the first LED. Mill a groove through the handle so that the short leg just sticks through the handle. Slide the leg up to close the circuit, back to open it.

Alternately, there's plenty of micro-miniature switches on the market - just got to find one that does what you want.

Others mentioned a timed circuit. There are timed relays available for this type of work. Not sure if any would be considered micro-miniature, of even if those would be small enough for your application, but do a search on yahoo and you should get some good results.

If you go with the timed circuit, you could also do away with the switches entirely and put in a centrifigal switch that clicks "on" when the knife starts to spin. Look into the systems used in the lighted Yo-Yos. However, this could mean alot of false "on" conditions when carried in the pocket.
Good luck,

Jamey Saunders
03-18-2003, 09:11 AM
While it wouldn't be as cool as LEDs, you could just save yourself a lot of trouble and use the glow in the dark paint that handgunners use on their sights...

tonyccw
03-18-2003, 09:30 AM
Mark: Thanks for the leads. It helps narrow down my search. Been pouring over DigiKey's huge catalog over the weekend to see what was available.

PaulD
03-19-2003, 10:55 AM
First of all, you are not dealing with enough voltage and/or current to turn this thing into a stun gun, capacitor or not.

The problem is getting low voltage/current LEDs, batteries and switches that are small enough to hide in a very small space.

Trick stuff like timers and flashers aren't that hard to wire but getting them small enough is the issue. Those flashing LED displays on the counter at the 7-11 either use LEDs with the flasher built into the LED case or a small circuit board that is purpose built with "surface mount" components (see that black epoxy drop on the board, that's a complex integrated circuit that sometimes includes a current saving function for long battery life) Hard to find in small quanities. Maybe you can sweet talk the clerk or manager into giving you one.

That "touch" switch is most likely a "capacitance switch" IE, more circuitry.

Radio Shack sells "blinking" LEDs but they are 5mm diameter, they have some 3mm low volt/current ones also. Blue LEDs generally require more volts/current than other colors, but the technology is getting better every day.

Haven't seen a DigiKey cat. lately, so good luck.

BaliXpert
03-20-2003, 06:59 PM
hey tony... just a thought on the switch... if you were to use one that slides... you could place it in the handle and have the part that you push in a direction right at level with the handles... making the switch totally out of the way for passing and such... unlike a button that would stick out?

tonyccw
03-20-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by BaliXpert
unlike a button that would stick out? Actually, I was envisioning a button that was installed flushed with the handle's surface. A simple push would engage it on or off.

BaliXpert
03-20-2003, 09:14 PM
gotcha... works for me:D...

kenster
03-21-2003, 08:36 PM
....if we could put something in the pivots so they generate electricity....???? ........the faster you flip the brighter the lights... :D:D

OOHYAVette
03-21-2003, 11:04 PM
What about building the L.E.D. into the lock? When with a centrifigal switch like on those funky lights people put on the tire valve stems. It would light anytime the knife was in motion and would be easy to install and remove at will. It could be fairly large if it needed to be. I am going to buy one and tape it to my knife to see if it will work and then start looking at a way to build it.

OOHYA

ghen
03-22-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by OOHYAVette
I am going to buy one and tape it to my knife to see if it will work and then start looking at a way to build it.

OOHYA

That's the spirit!! Please post pics when you are done!

relayer66
03-24-2003, 05:55 PM
i like that. all you need is one LED in the end of the latch, since that's the part that is in motion anyway...the handle being held is not usually swinging (except in some twirls or aerials). it would simplify the construction. would work better with a spring latch. there is probably enough room in the spring latch cavity in a bm to put a small circuit?

OOHYAVette
03-25-2003, 01:05 AM
I found a unit today that would probably work but if flashes rather than staying constant on. The search continues. I wish I had a digital camcorder to document the project.

crosman177
04-26-2003, 08:45 PM
The latch is the switch & completes the circuit.

Just a thought.

tonyccw
04-27-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by crosman177
The latch is the switch & completes the circuit.

Just a thought. Good thought. But it doesn't allow a completed circuit when in motion, as that was what the focus was for; allowing the bali to light up during manipulation. But the inverse will work. With the latch in place, the circuit is open, but with the latch disengaged, the circuit is closed, that would work. Unfortunately, that would mean that unless you figure a way out to differentiate the circuit from the handles latched open (vs closed), you won't have a light show when latched open.

crosman177
04-27-2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by tonyccw
With the latch in place, the circuit is open, but with the latch disengaged, the circuit is closed, that would work.

Actually, i was thinking the reverse. When it is opened (unlatched) circuit is complete. And when it is closed(latched), the circuit is open.:) So when flipping it's lit. And when not flippin it, and you got it closed light is off, but if you want to show it off, all you gotta do is flip the latch.:)

I'll think more on it, and see what I get.

tonyccw
04-27-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by crosman177
And when not flippin it, and you got it closed light is off, but if you want to show it off, all you gotta do is flip the latch.:)

I'll think more on it, and see what I get. So I'm assuming that in the open position, the lights are off? Would have been nice otherwise.

ExamonLyf
05-08-2003, 08:12 PM
Darrel hasn't volunteered to just knock a couple of these guys out yet....??? Geeeeesh... :rolleyes:

nybble
05-08-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by ExamonLyf
Darrel hasn't volunteered to just knock a couple of these guys out yet....??? Geeeeesh... :rolleyes:

Darrel's nothing if not a slacker. ;)