There does not seem to be a place on the CKD for positive constructive criticism of knives and I wonder if we all might benefit from having a "Critic's Corner" (CC). We do this for knife photography, why not for kinves themselves?

At the Display Case we often start off with the CKD signature compliment "looking good" then add positive comments about whatever details of design or finish we think are especially interesting, creative or well done. But I very seldom hear comments like "Cool blade profile but your grind lines seem a bit soft. You can keep them sharp and crisp by . . . ." When I do hear these comments it is in response to someone asking for help with a specific problem they have identified (e.g., a couple of weeks back Dogman asked opinions about his choice of bolster stock thickness because he thought things were looking on the thin side). The CC would do this too but also help folks to find out what problems might exist in the first place, at least in the eyes of others.

Positive constructive criticism can really help a person (especially us newbies) identify what can be improved and learn how to make the improvements. But it works if and only if personal references are kept out of the discussion. Sentences like, "If you had paid more attention to detail you would have realized that that filework needed to be polished out to look acceptably clean" should be verboten!

Peer review and criticism are an integral part of my professional field. There are two kinds, "in house" criticism by close colleagues and collaborators and external review or what I call "out house" criticism by your competitors and other folks in your field who are allowed to write comments without identifying themselves. "Out house" pretty much describes what you usually think about the often biting, sharp, mean and plain wrong external reviews. Kindness, helpfullness, patience and friendship characterize the CKD and the CC would function pretty much like an "in house" review. The point would be to provide positive criticism - what is wrong and how to fix it.

A person obviously would have a choice when they completed a new knife to post a pic at the Display Case or at the CC. You pretty much know what to expect at the Display Case, and beleive me, when I eventually get around to making something I want to show you guys I will want all the "looking goods" I can get. But once I get some confidence up I will also want to know what you don't like about my knives or what you see that could be improved that I might not even notice. I think this would be very helpful to us all.

OK, 'nuf said. What do you think?

Best,
John

John, I think it's a sound idea, but it might require heavier moderation than the other forums on the CKD. You clearly understand that the Display Case is a place for encouragement (or, perhaps, silence), and recognize the need for an occasional "Attaboy."

On the other hand, the Critic's Corner, even though it would be in the CKD "family," might require thicker skin on the part of the poster, since some of the criticism might come from sources that the maker considers to be under-qualified.

The key, though, is keeping the comments constructive and helpful. One barb, or a mean-spirited response from a maker on a bad day, could cause serious deterioration of the great esprit de corps found here.

I have, on occasion, invited criticism from specific individuals like Paul Basch on a particular knife, because the opinion ventured would be of great value to me.

On other occasions, I have bristled at criticism that was both unsolicited and unwelcome, even though accurate, simply because I was already accutely aware of the shortcomings of the piece in question, and the piece was not on display.

"Managing" a potentially emotional or sensitive forum might be more than we can chew. I will no doubt continue to submit my work to specific people for their perspectives, but would consider posting an image if it didn't turn into a mud-slinging contest.

I think it is a great idea...with the things Don said in mind...I think it would work good.....anyways...if you post in such a forum..you know what to expect....but we need to be carefull though...!

We don´t want to end up like Bladeforums...

I say continue using the diplay case and the person posting picture just simply put in the subject line,"Ok folks,let me know what I need to do to help this one?" and if wanted we could say"please no emails" "or emails only please".Just my two cents!!!!!!!

Thanks for your thoughtful comments Don and your support Jens.

I like Mike's solution. It is super simple and it allows us to ease into more explicit criticism without opening the flood gates. This happens now and then already. Maybe all we need to do is remind ourselves that helpful critical comments are out there from folks we trust, all we need to do is ask. And as Mike says we have the option to go public or keep it private. If this catches on, and there is a good reason to get more formal,
then we can think about a new forum again.

Best,
Joihn

There's no way to have a knife properly critiqued with just an image. You can't:

<li>Sight down the spine to make sure it's straight

<li>See that the tip and edge are dead center

<li>Check the edge geometry

<li>Verify that the tip of guard is centered with the edge, the spine, and the handle

<li>Verify that both ricasso shoulders are aligned (vertically)

<li>Verify matching radius (radii?) of the ricasso shoulders at the choil

<li>Sight down the bevels for divots

<li>Make sure the grinds match on both sides

<li>Closely inspect the solder joint

<li>Check for gaps at the ricasso/gaurd junction, handle/guard junction, slabs to tang (if applicable), gaps around pins/bolts, bolsters, ferrule, etc.

<li>Feel the weight

<li>Feel the balance

About the only thing you can judge from a single image is the design and flow of the knife, and to some extent, the finish. But even these things can be distorted or misleading depending on the angle of the camera and the lighting.

You can of course usually catch any glaring problems, but not make a true judgement call. Also, if you guys decide to go along with this, remember, when you ask someone to critique your knives, you are not asking for praise for everything you've done right. You are asking to be told everything that is not right. Not everyone has the ability give criticism in a way that is palatable. And not everyone is able to accept criticism even though they've asked for it. Make sure you have a tough enough skin when you ask for it.

Personally, when I ask for a critique, I prefer to have it done in private.

I like what Terry brought up. I think of the Gallery as more of an opportunity to ooh and aah at the fine workmanship visible in the pics.

The idea of sending ones knife around for critique came up some time ago. I remember Don responding that he would take any reason to handle a knife from another maker and thoroughly examine it and provide some feed back.

I have plans to solicite individuals to receive some of my work here in the near future and give me some feed back on my work.

Anyway, maybe we could combine the thought patterns on display here and us the current Gallery as suggested and have a list of makers willing to receive knives for examination and critique.

Just my .02 on the subject.

Terry has it nailed. All you can do from a picture is say it looks good or not. I think the Display Case is a safe place to ask for criticism, as far as you can get from a picture. If you want more than "nice knife" ask for it. If you don't live close to a knifemaker, email one of the experienced guys on the forums, and ask them if they will evaluate your work in person. If they say yes, and they will, mail your knife to them with return postage and really let it have a good looking over. Expect your ego to be deflated a bit, but in a very good way...the way that makes you want to do better. I was so proud of my first knives, I turned a blind eye to my own mistakes. I you can visit another maker in person or go to a show, do it. make it perfectly clear you want an honest evaluation. have them show you what they are looking at and how they are seeing things. You can tilt a knife just right in the light and use light distortions to see waves and scratches. If you can get to a shop, have them show you how to fix your mistakes. Keep in mind, there are as many ways to do a task as there are knifemakers. Remember that what they show you is their way. You may adapt it and you may not. Don't expect a flat grinder to tell you how to do a good hollow grind. I would personally love to see mentoring going on here. Trust me, I bug Steve and Ricardo all the time, and I am very lucky to have Reese and Mike right up the road.

Doug,
that very idea is what resparked the pass around projects.If a fellow maker is willing to look at my knives I am all for it.So if there is anyone or group that would be willing to critique my work on a constant or random basis here is my email.Lets talk kollerknives@yahoo.com

Terry - I am with you 100%. You can't evaluate features of a knife that you can't see or feel. Any web-based evaluation will necessarily be limited by what can be judged accurately from the available images of the knife. And that might not be much, or it could be quite a bit if there are several high quality images with the knife appropriately positioned. Geting information from how light reflects off surfaces is another matter best left to hands-on assessment.

As Don said, it pays to be super cautious about criticism becasue a misspoken or mean barb could do serious damage to the great atmosphere of encouragement and friendship you all have nurtured at the CKD. I agree, keep the flame in the forge.

So lets leave things as they now stand. We can ask for and receive criticism in many different ways and we can decide individually when, how and from whom to get it.

Good discussion!

Best,
John