View Full Version : filework with liners


SVanderkolff
12-22-2002, 08:01 AM
I am having a bit of a problem. I have done filework down the whole spine of the knife, fixed blade 1/8" 440C, and put black liners between the tang and the handle slabs, stabilized burl. The problem is that when I finish the handle slabs the liner mushes (technical term) into the filework. Do I need to do either filework or liners and not both or am I missing a trick here somewhere. Thanks for the help.
Steve

tmickley
12-22-2002, 11:12 AM
Epoxy the liners to the scales first and let them cure, then attach to the tang.

I find it much easier to epoxy the liners to scales first for drilling, trimming, etc. Saves a lot headaches getting everything lined up when it comes time to glue up with 2 less pieces and holes to match up.

SVanderkolff
12-22-2002, 12:13 PM
Actually I already do that. The problem comes when I sand down the scales the liners being softer than the wood tends to get damaged and fold over into the spaces created by the filework.
Steve

Osprey Guy
12-22-2002, 01:51 PM
Did you use vulcanized paper for your liners? Sometimes the epoxy can change the characteristic of the paper, and it will lose some of it's rigidity. Although I still use the paper on occasion, this is one of the reasons I went searching around for a new liner material and stumbled into my disposable, plastic plate idea.

You can get them in nearly any color, the colors are far more vibrant, it inherently holds up well to the elements, and it's dirt cheap! I bought a stack of nice, bright red plates at Target for $.99!!!

When you buy them, look at the edges to see if the color permeates the plastic all the way through...most are just fine. Checking those edges will also give you an idea of the thickness...it does vary...which is a good thing...variety! For even greater selection, check out your local party supply store...;)

Dennis

Yeah Baby!:smokin

SVanderkolff
12-22-2002, 06:25 PM
Dennis
I was using your plastic plates on this knife. Subsequent to the last posting I was playing with them trying to straighten out the liner and the whole handle popped loose. I am thinking I did not scuff the plastic well enough and the epoxy didn't adhere. With very little force I was able to remove both sides of the handle. I hadn't pinned it yet but this was not shearing force. I think I may try the vulcanized next time on this knife as the plastic was what melted into the file grooves. Oh well this is known as "experience" right.
Thanks
Steve

Jason Cutter
12-23-2002, 05:50 AM
Most of the coloured plastic liners sold eg.- Texas Knifemakers Supplies are supposed to be "engraving stock". I have no idea what that is. But I do know that most epoxies and cyanoacrylates won't stick to the polyethylene and polypropylene family of plastics, eg.- what is used for chopping boards. I also use take-away container covers as bowls for mixing epoxy and when its set, I bend the container and the whole lump of epoxy just pops off. Could that be the problem you're experiencing ?

I've also had the same problem of the liners filing up the filework and am fairly fed up. The only solution I've found so far has been to use the thinnest BRASS shim sheet stock as spacers - this works very well and is quite a good look, but the trick is to cut the liners with tin snips, NOT ON THE BANDSAW, then lightly hammer out the creases. Rough with 240paper and stick it to your handle slabs, clamped to a dead flat surface. It actually highlights the filework something great and doesn't have that folding over problem. Would still like some red stuff though.

Cheers.

wrathlord
12-23-2002, 10:53 PM
what kind of wheel are you using to buff with?,it could be the combination of wheel hardness and rouge is too much.Did you try a white or pink scratchless on a loose wheel for the final buff?,I use fiber spacer material ,and rarely have a problem this way.I use a 6-inch loose muslin wheel,with the pink no scratch and light pressure,never had a deformation prob yet.The buffer cuts,so the act of buffing the handle is actually removing material,since the spacer material is softer it will move into those fileworked areas,because there is no structure there to support it,that your dead on about,but you can still buff it out,just need to do it with less cut,and pressure.......ya know??

Osprey Guy
12-30-2002, 08:36 PM
Steve-

I'm always on the lookout for plastic plates, etc. that I think would work for spacers/liners, etc...
There's a lot of different types of plastic out there and I've found that quite often, they're not suitable for this application.

The plastic which has worked for me has a relatively hard finish, and the color of course has to permeate front to back. If the finish is hard there's no reason that I can think of for it to have this "melting" problem...at least I haven't experienced it.

As a matter of fact I'm using plastic on my current folder. It's serving as a liner sitting underneath MOP. I selected it because there's a couple of areas on the MOP scales where you can see through to the liners and I needed to cover that up. The blue plastic I selected has an iridescent quality which works great with the colors of the MOP. I cut it out of the lids from some Tupperware-type containers I found at Target (again)...4 for $1.49!!!..and the plastic's not too hard, not too soft, just right...and it's pressing hard against filework I might add. I won't be finished this knife for awhile yet, I'll post pics when done.

BTW- For my fixed blade carving knives, I do rough the plastic before applying the epoxy...so far no problems.

I have a feeling the problem you're having is with the plastic you're using...if it's at all soft finished, you're gonna have problems for sure.

Dennis

Yeah Baby!:smokin

Jason Cutter
12-30-2002, 09:58 PM
I've found out the hard way that the vulcanised fibre spacer material is NOT waterproof. This is a real problem since I used to have heaps of spacers on my working knives. In the field or when exposed to water, the spacers actually absorb water, initially around the edges where exposed, and expand and contract, creating an ugly gap / ridge and the adhesive seal - epoxy / superglue is broken. Unfortunately the spacers also don't really absorb the superglues really well, so sealing with that is also quite difficult. Fortunately, I learnt to pin handles on properly from the start so at least the handles haven't fallen apart.

I was really frustrated. I now use spacer materials of various coloured Micarta and Dymondwood now and using the fibre spacers at an absolute minimum.

The solution is to use the plastic spacers quoted as "for engraving stock" which I found on Texas Knifemakers Supply's website. Although a little more expensive, they are also thinner and therefore more elegant. I purchased some for use as backing on some MOP scales. The same stuff is also available pre-stacked in various colour combinations / thicknesses. They are quoted as waterproof and I expect better performance from them.

Cheers.

wrathlord
12-30-2002, 10:03 PM
great Idea,container lids,I'm going to try that,What about those plastic Binders for looseleaf paper,lots of color there,wonder if it's hard enough?????

Osprey Guy
12-31-2002, 12:04 AM
It's amazing how many things you can find which incorporate enough flat plastic to use as spacers...the trick is to determine which plastic will work.

Generally speaking, I've found that if it's not too soft it'll work fine (Note how I phrased that as not "too soft" as opposed to if it's "hard enough"...the "too soft" is where the trouble seems to start).

The lids I'm using are surprisingly thin...thinner than most of the hard finish plastic plates I mostly prefer...in this particular case, that works for me. Be careful of the lids though, many of the ones I looked at appear to be of the "too soft" variety of plastic. (These containers I bought at Target were by some company called "Starware") You'll find out quick enough when you're trimming them down AFTER fitting them to the scales. I'm usually doing that with my Dremel, and when it's too soft it'll melt off more than grind off. If it starts "melting" too much...you've got the wrong stuff!

Dennis

Yeah Baby!:smokin

PS.. By the way, needless to say, the plastic is seriously waterproof!!!:D

PPS. I ordered the "high tech" plastic from TKS... it arrived cracked, twice! (just bad luck, TKS are good people) and at $6 per 6" x 12" sheet was a heck of a lot more expensive than the $1.00 stack of plates, etc (and yet "their" plastic and "my" plates appear to be pretty darned similar;) )