View Full Version : Our Country is Headed in the RIGHT directon!


tom mayo
11-06-2002, 04:55 PM
:D I am so stoked!!!! :D


http://www.argusleader.com/election/daschle.shtml

whv
11-06-2002, 07:08 PM
i hear ya, tom! :smokin

mdagley
11-06-2002, 10:37 PM
Amen, brother!
But let's not forget to prey for our new leadership's wisdom and faithfulness!

Mike

Steve
11-07-2002, 10:54 PM
I felt a little like the day Bush won. Yahoooooooooo!!!!

("Course it took a month or two to seal it, but that's still a great feeling.)

Bob Sigmon
11-07-2002, 11:54 PM
Man am I glad that the 'people' got out the vote!

Unfortunately, Michigan isn't quite as smart as other states. Hopefully by '04 they will have wised up.

Bob Sigmon

Dan Graves
11-08-2002, 03:17 PM
Maybe now something can get done. Lower taxes for one.

J.Arthur Loose
11-08-2002, 03:33 PM
I think they're *all* crooked.

Left, Right; there is no difference.

http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=4&subject_name=The%20Bush%20Family

Steve
11-13-2002, 08:45 PM
Makes one wonder, offtimes. The best we can do is elect the best we can and that takes some study, trying to see what, if any, differences there are.
Party loyalty is a given once they're in that "seat", no matter what they say.....strike that, this ain't no soapbox for Johnson!

tom mayo
11-18-2002, 03:43 AM
they may all be crooked, certainly no one is perfect.......however, George W is not selling our country to the Chinese and the Euro leftists like his scum bag predecesor and that woman he calls his wife were!

George believes in God..........I'm on his side 110%!!!!!!!
and I believe that makes all the difference in the world!

hammerdownnow
11-18-2002, 09:55 AM
.......and the wurld gotta end 'a for them a-rabs take jew-ru-slam from the jews so we gotta hurry and bring on the army-geddin so's we can all go be with jeeez-us

J.Arthur Loose
11-18-2002, 10:42 AM
I'm with Hammerdownnow...

There is a great deal of evidence to suggest that W and the religious right are actively seeking the Armaggedon thing.

I don't know which is worse: the possible religious motivation for war with Iraq or the possible profit / oil motivation.

Besides, this country was founded by Deists who wanted to keep religion and government separate in order to maintain *individual freedom*. That's what America is all about, right? Expressing joy that *any* leader of this country will express his religious beliefs in the execution of the law belies a deep misunderstanding of the function of the *First* Amendment.

As far as I'm concerned the *only* thing that the 'right,' has gotten correct is their stance on the Second Amendment. ( To get this ever so slightly back on topic... )

Steve, feel free to move this thread to 'CKD Community,' as I'd like to keep going with it... but I recognize that this forum isn't necessarily the proper place for it.

Sincerely,

Dan Graves
11-18-2002, 10:59 AM
Mr. Loose,

Where is there great evidence that Pres. Bush is pushing for armeggedon? Seems to me he is trying to prevent it.
Should we as a nation (after the attack in New York, which claimed more lives than Pearl Harber) wait for Saddam to use a weapon of mass destruction?

Brett Bennett
11-18-2002, 11:50 AM
I don't believe Saddam to be a good man or a benevolent leader of his country, however, consider the following questions.
Is is possible that Saddam desires to 'level the playing field' by developing a nuclear arsenal, much like the United States, Russia, China, etc? Is it not hypocritical of the US to demand that Iraq cease and desist? Or, is our government just more competent and ethical? Are you sure?
Is it plausible that a man, who has worked so hard to stay alive these past twelve years, desires mutually assured destruction? Do you suppose he believes the virgin story?
Further, I find it odd (well, not really) that we are pursuing the Iraqi regime, who has no verifiable ties to 9/11 (state involvement, that is), all the while ignoring Saudi Arabia, who does.

Dan Graves
11-18-2002, 01:33 PM
This man has ignored UN sanctions for almost 10 years, used chemical warfare (that killed 70,000 of people in his own country), has helped terrist, invaded Kwait, and with a record like this, we should allow him to level the playing field? If he gets it, he will use it. What Pres. Bush is trying to do is make him adhear to the resolutions that the UN placed on him.

hammerdownnow
11-18-2002, 01:33 PM
When you become brain washed to believe this world is only temporary and there is a better place to spend all eternity you no longer care for our planet. These people feel they have nothing to lose and will get their reward in the after life. The muslims and the two other factions of there mythology are in a race to get "nowhere" fast. The first one to blow us all up wins! Global insanity. If it wasnt so horrific it would be comical. Oh how different it could have been if the Celts had beat back the Romans.

Dan Graves
11-18-2002, 01:45 PM
Mr. Bennett,

As for your Question wether we are more ethical and competent, Yes we are. Your question on cease and desist, we dont want any country to cease and desist. We want peace. As far as Saudia Arabia, they allow us to have air bases on in thier country to combat terrorism.

J.Arthur Loose
11-18-2002, 03:24 PM
If you aren't going to actually read *all* of the following links don't even bother getting back to me. Seriously. Educate yourself. Bush is lying about Iraq left and right.


Firstly, the US told Iraq to go ahead and invade Kuwait prior to the original Gulf War:


http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/11/1031608270446.html


Scott Ritter, the former chief UN Inspector of Iraq, resigned over the U.S. planting *spies* on the UN Inspection team. He claims that Iraq has absolutely no capability for having WMD:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,805900,00.html


Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions than Iraq yet we want to *VIOLATE* the UN to go after Iraq:


http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0209/S00122.htm


The American government actively supported the use of various gasses on the battlefield during the Iran / Iraq War:


http://www.svsu.edu/~boles/index/usiraqgas.htm


The former head of Iraqi issues in the CIA during the period in which Hussein supposedly gassed the Kurds actually blames Iran;stating that the observed effects of the gas ( blackened limbs on the victims ) showed conclusively that it was a gas agent the Iraqis were *known* to not have. The following article does not contain that quote, which I can't find at the minute, but does contain relevant information:


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/helms.html


Wouldn't you try to violate sanctions that have admittedly killed *HALF OF A MILLION CHILDREN* ?!? I know I would. It should also be noted that *WE* violate the "Oil for Food,' program by obfuscating on such basic things as water purification devices... because we are actively trying to degrade the Iraqi population in a backfiring attempt to get them to unseat Hussein.


http://www.fair.org/extra/0111/iraq.html


I could go on for hours. This war is a scam for control of Iraqi oil. END OF STORY.

J.Arthur Loose
11-18-2002, 03:32 PM
On the subject of Bush and Armageddon:


http://www.antiwar.com/orig/strong1.html

Archived article below, original article is on the second link in that site's archives ( search it... it's there; I saw it that week) :

http://www.rense.com/general31/arma.htm

http://www.jvim.com/qotw/index.html


Yup. We need this guy in charge of 'Nuke-ya-ler,' weapons...

BTW I *LOVE* this country, which is WHY I disagree with Bush...

hammerdownnow
11-18-2002, 04:43 PM
Thank you J for that insightfulful, yet frightning look at reality. I see you saw fit to add that you love this country,as do I. To disagree with the dubya crowd tends to brand one as a traitor.

Dan Graves
11-18-2002, 09:50 PM
A good friend told me once "To keep friends, dont talk about reliegion or politics. I am outta here. Going to talk knives.

It is good to see people love thier country.

hammerdownnow
11-18-2002, 09:58 PM
I was thinkin the same thing Dan. I have really enjoyed reading all the tips and tricks you have shared. Thank you very much. Your experience shows and your willingness to share is appreciated.

Brett Bennett
11-18-2002, 10:10 PM
Dan,

No ill will here.
BTW, I would like to echo the sentiment that my views on our government have nothing to do with those of this fine country.

J.Arthur Loose
11-18-2002, 10:13 PM
It's a hard call these days between saying what you believe and saying nothing. On one level I know this is not the place for these discussions. On another level I think they need to be had, which is why I asked Steve to move this to Community.

I don't have any hard feelings toward those who disagree and I hope we can all continue to talk Knives.

Sincerely,

Dan Graves
11-18-2002, 10:26 PM
Aint no hard feelings here. Its just that people who are knifemakers are Real smart, Tend to work hard at perfection, Fully explain to others thier methods to a science. To much for my head as it is.

hammerdownnow
11-18-2002, 10:28 PM
Let some more out son, yer gonna get an anurizam....lol

Steve
11-19-2002, 01:53 AM
I agree, let's move. Just tell me how to go about it??

hammerdownnow
11-19-2002, 01:57 AM
to late Steve, we are back to talkin knives. We cant afford to alienate each other. Me and Bruce Evans were talkin about how our old friends avoid us because we wont talk about anything but making knives.

Terry Primos
11-19-2002, 02:16 AM
I moved it for you Steve.

You guys can either access this from its new home in the CKD Community forum, or from a link in its original home in Steve's forum.

JossDelage
11-20-2002, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by J.Loose
Israel is in violation of more UN resolutions than Iraq yet we want to *VIOLATE* the UN to go after Iraq

Honestly, the fact that Israel is "in violation" of more UN resolutions than Iraq, Saudi Arabia, China, or Russia - if not all those countries combined - is to me a demonstration that the UN is a worthless institution, not that Israel is more guilty than Iraq.

Let's not forget that one of those resolutions against Israel was voted when they destroyed Saddam's only nuclear plant. I don't know about you, but I for one am mighty glad they had the cojones to do it.

The UN is a forum where tiny dictatures get the same votes as liberal - in the original sense of the term - republics. Its synthetic opinion is worthless. The US should get out of it and let it crumble under its own weight.

As to the US violating the UN resolution, I certainly hope the US will never delegate their security to the UN. The one clear legit mandate a government is given is to protect the rights of its citizens. They must not delegate this responsability to some whorish amalgamate of horrible dictatures and shameless special interests.

We can argue whether or not Iraq directly threaten the UN - this is a legit debate - but not on whether the standard for action is the UN's resolution.

JD

falconhawk
11-20-2002, 09:25 PM
1) Yes there is to be a saparation of Church and State.
2) No, there is not to be guv'ment interferance with the Church.
3) All but 3 of the 'founding fathers' were active in thier Churches.
4) The purpose of the separation of Church and State was to
prevent the State from acknowledging any one Church or
religion as an "official" religion as was done in history such as
in Russia where there was only one acceptend church.
5) At no point were the 'founding fathers' suggesting that there
be a total LACK of religion in the political arena.

BTW........... Consider the moral decline in this country and trace it to it's origin. At the core of the matter you will find apostacy. You will find that the Church was pushed aside in favor of "new" ways and "new" religions. In many casses those "new" ways and religions were once beat back by the onslaught of Christianity and the subsequent demise of paganism. For those of you who feel that Christians are "brainwashed" take a look at the histories of the 'other religions' as well. Let us go pray to yon tree................
Maybe our stone 'god' can make a miricle for us............. IF we kill enough babys and virgins.............

Has there been faults in the growth of Christianity? You bet there has,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, BUT I submit that the central message of Christianity is the Love of God for man. Always has been, always will be......... God's Love = Jesus' death & resurection = man's salvation. Yes, I believe there is a better place and that this world is 'temporary,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I am still concerned with things that occure here and now as well. THAT is as it should be. I feelings of sympathy are with all who have nothing to believe in or who are deluded into belief systems that tell them how great they are and how all the good they do will save them in the end.

I am sorry if this offends, but I am not sorry for my beliefs and will always share them when I feel led to do so. We are all brother's here by the choice of somthing we all love and enjoy. I respect you all but please, don't mock what I believe and I will not mock what you believe.

As to the battle of Meggido,,,,,,, COME ON!

Falconhawk

falconhawk
11-20-2002, 09:36 PM
As to weather or not OUR country is better suited to having nukes or bio/chem weapons.............

NO WAY!

Just as a note, I love this country. That said, any republic or democracy, is by it's nature the worst type of goventment to have.

A monarchy or other autonomous head of state is best cause when it all comes down to it, you get rid on one and he is gone, you have delt with the problem. This system has worked for more years, centuries that the US has existed.


Falconhawk

J.Arthur Loose
11-21-2002, 11:49 AM
You can have your Theocratic Monarchy, Falconhawk.

I will fight it to the death. As did many of my Heathen ancestors. 40,000 slain in Norway alone for refusing to convert. This by a man who became a Saint for the very act.

First and longest lasting continuous Parliament in the world? Iceland. Started in 930 AD; continues to this day. When it peacefully declared Christianity to be the official religion ( the *only* nation in the *world* to do so, btw ) it was to keep violent Norway at bay. Oh, and Heathens were allowed to practice their faith privately.

SO. Democracy can work... and religious pluralism can work. All it takes is some honest and genuine tolerance...

SharpByCoop
11-21-2002, 02:34 PM
Jon's not alone in his beliefs. I support his viewpoint 100%. I am a Unitarian, which is the very same 'religion' that Thomas Jefferson AND John Adams believed in. (Actually, it's NOT a religion in itself. It is an approach to religion which allows you to make your own conscious decisions regarding Theology. If it works for you, and it is inherently good, then it's fine. Most of us UU's don't believe in life everlasting, but, rather, what goes on in the here and now. The end result is that whether you are striving for a good life in Eternity or not, by doing the 'right thing' now, you will have fulfilled each of your goals. It's all good. ;))

I interject this here to clarify Falconhawk's vision of our 'Founding Fathers' as regular churchgoing men. They may have gone to church (as I do nearly every Sunday), but they weren't supporters of Christianity's view of Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Saviour and other non-believers will burn in Hell. They were visionaries of a better system. I refuse to let MY children believe this scary proposition.

With that said, I am wary of a government who feels that their Christian God is the best one for us. For every reason Jonathan just mentioned, and more reasons that I can't articulate but simply don't 'feel good' about, I just don't agree. And apparently, neither did TJ and JA.

But.... I am truly glad how well Christianity works for so many individuals, and I am happy to call them/you as close friends. Because they ARE good people! And that's the whole point of successful pluralism and democracy, eh?

Coop (who trys to remain nuetral but can't say 'nothing', either.)

falconhawk
11-21-2002, 03:40 PM
Ok, J, I did not mention a Theocratic Monarchy, just the monarchy. I too would have trouble with a theocratic monarchy. I am a "Christian" yes, however, my view of that term is not quite the same as the 'classical' understanding of it. I will be glad to illuminte to any who wish, however, religion classes were not (I belive) the point of this thread. I am well aware of the sacrifices of MANY to the 'cause' of Christianity through the centuries. As to heathan, well my own ancestry is full of that as well if the word is taken from a christian definitian. I am Native American and that strongly affects my belief system. Unitarian??????? Hmmmmmmm maybe that one calls for some research lol.

But I digress,,,,,,, I thought the MAIN point to this thread was the responsibility of various Govtmnts to handle nukes and bio-chem.
Well, I feel that this govt. is as guilty as any other as to how it has dealt with things in the past. Responsible? Yes, responsible for decimating America's native populace, responsible for useing chemical agents during WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. My Oldest brother died in the nam and did not find out about it till last year. Agnt Ornge. Responsible,,,,,, for assasinations, murders private wars, drug trafficking, yeah all that and probably a lot more that we are not aware of at all.

I do not KNOW if there is a better tomorrow, maybe I am a fool to believe it. But if there is and I am right then maybe I was right to be a fool for Jesus. Who's fool is everyone else if I am right? And if I am wrong, then I will have at least spent my life emulating (to the best of my ability) a humble man born in Nazereth over 2000 years ago that taught all men that they should love one another and do good to all men. In that I can not / will not fail. I will defend to the death your right to say what you want and to believe as you do. If we want to argue theology, this is a fun diversion and I enjoy it. But I may not accept your beliefs. But neither will I mock them. All I wanted was for the same "respect and tolerance" for my beliefs that J espouses in his own. Tolerance and duelism will work only when ALL persons involved follow the same rules. Does not work if I am intollerant of you and your beliefs of vise versa.

But what do I know? Nuff said and I will now step down from my soap box. lol

Falconhawk

J.Arthur Loose
11-21-2002, 04:19 PM
Falconhawk,

This was the quote that set me off:

Maybe our stone 'god' can make a miricle for us............. IF we kill enough babys and virgins.............

I am thinking here of one Abraham... who at least had to prove he was *willing* to sacrifice his own son...

Theology here is tangential, but not a digression. When the leader of our country calls the 'War on Terrorism,' a 'crusade,' he is either *very* ill-educated or he is turning this war into a religious issue.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/terror/wtc-crusade-csm.html

When Falwell, Grahm and Robertson insult Islam and GW Bush holds meetings with them it becomes a religious issue:

http://www.newarkadvocate.com/news/stories/20021010/opinion/261154.html

I just think that this country is walking a very dangerous line these days; and I think there is a lack of information for those who can't or won't *look* for it. I think that when people say the 'Right,' direction they may not be aware just how *far* right things are heading:

http://truthout.com/docs_02/11.16F.safire.you.htm

( Original on NY Times; reg. required )

falconhawk
11-22-2002, 03:30 AM
What can I say but WAY sorry bro, no offense meant. Was caught up in the moment?

Falconhawk ;)

hammerdownnow
11-26-2002, 06:57 AM
I did mock, and for that i am sorry. Before science we believed all sorts of myths. Made up stories to explain the unknown. It is not wrong to follow the teachings of a kind and gentle man. It is admirable to want to love ones fellow man and live in peace and harmony. It is just as admirable to worship love and protect our true mother, Earth. This middle eastern philosopy you so eagerly embrace is a wolf in sheeps clothing. It holds out a gentle hand with kind eyes and offers life everlasting. In the other it holds a club smashing and distroying every culture it comes into contact with. Do the natives of the brazilian rain forest need to be "saved"?Saved from what? Saved from leading a life of peace and harmony with nature? You have to see that this is just wrong. Compound that by a thousand. Include in that the slaughter of the wiccan midwives and the distruction of all the knowlege of herbal medicine. Ther may have been a cure there that could have saved someone close to you or me. If there was an all mighty sitting in judgement over mankind who do you think he would pick to come sit with him everlasting ? This simple native farmer or Jimmy Swaggart? Or Jim and Tami Fay? Now you might say," don't confuse me with those people". O.K. i won't, if you won't confuse a gentle man following the teachings of Christ with the Evangelical terrorists on a path to world distruction just for the sake of self fullfilled prophesy. I am ignorant.I try to learn something new everyday to combat that. But, I am sorry to say that i believe George Bush to be totally ignorant and under the influence of very evil people.

hammerdownnow
12-30-2002, 09:05 AM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_newsom_122302_leftright.html